1
00:00:19,936 --> 00:00:22,272
CLAIRE HUIE: Rob and I
wrote letters back and forth

2
00:00:22,355 --> 00:00:25,150
while he was
in Travis County Jail,

3
00:00:25,233 --> 00:00:27,902
{\an8}and, uh, he had a lot of time
on his hands

4
00:00:27,944 --> 00:00:29,112
{\an8}so he would write us
long letters,

5
00:00:29,154 --> 00:00:31,656
{\an8}and this is the first one
that he wrote to us.

6
00:00:34,909 --> 00:00:36,119
"Dear Claire..."

7
00:00:36,202 --> 00:00:37,662
♪ (GENTLE PIANO MUSIC PLAYING) ♪

8
00:00:37,746 --> 00:00:40,582
"...when you're in jail,
time is weird.

9
00:00:41,499 --> 00:00:44,127
<i>Some days
a second takes all day,</i>

10
00:00:44,210 --> 00:00:46,546
<i>and others a day takes seconds.</i>

11
00:00:47,672 --> 00:00:50,341
<i>When you're in a cell,
23 hours a day,</i>

12
00:00:50,425 --> 00:00:52,302
<i>time stretches to infinity.</i>

13
00:00:53,178 --> 00:00:54,763
<i>I read a lot.</i>

14
00:00:54,804 --> 00:00:57,057
<i>I read the whole</i> Dune <i>series.</i>

15
00:00:57,140 --> 00:00:58,725
<i>That's probably
one of the greatest</i>

16
00:00:58,808 --> 00:01:03,188
<i>sci-fi fantasy series around,
and I consider it a classic.</i>

17
00:01:03,271 --> 00:01:04,647
<i>I'm not much into puzzles."</i>

18
00:01:04,689 --> 00:01:07,776
I think I sent him
some puzzle books or something.

19
00:01:07,817 --> 00:01:12,781
"But I do listen to NPR,
although I prefer the BBC News.

20
00:01:12,822 --> 00:01:15,533
<i>I've used this situation to grow
into a better person</i>

21
00:01:15,617 --> 00:01:17,577
<i>in the last nine
and a half years.</i>

22
00:01:18,620 --> 00:01:19,913
<i>You can't see it</i>

23
00:01:19,996 --> 00:01:22,332
<i>since you've only known me
for about a week,</i>

24
00:01:22,373 --> 00:01:24,834
but ask my mother
or even my father.

25
00:01:26,127 --> 00:01:29,047
<i>You may even have them on film
talking about this already.</i>

26
00:01:29,130 --> 00:01:31,132
<i>I have no clue
what you've gotten so far.</i>

27
00:01:32,425 --> 00:01:36,638
<i>I've grown in so many ways
it's impossible to explain.</i>

28
00:01:36,679 --> 00:01:40,350
Please write back soon.
Sincere best wishes, Rob."

29
00:01:41,101 --> 00:01:43,228
That was his first letter,

30
00:01:43,311 --> 00:01:46,147
um, and we wrote back and forth
a few times

31
00:01:46,189 --> 00:01:49,567
before he got released on bond.
Yeah.

32
00:01:50,068 --> 00:01:52,278
♪ (MUSIC FADES) ♪

33
00:01:52,362 --> 00:01:53,988
♪ ("YOGURT SHOP MURDERS"
THEME MUSIC PLAYING) ♪

34
00:01:54,739 --> 00:02:00,203
♪ <i>I was living in a devil town</i> ♪

35
00:02:01,287 --> 00:02:06,209
{\an8}♪ <i>Didn't know
it was a devil town</i> ♪

36
00:02:08,378 --> 00:02:13,007
♪ <i>Oh, Lord,
it really brings me down</i> ♪

37
00:02:13,049 --> 00:02:15,468
{\an8}♪ <i>About the devil town</i> ♪

38
00:02:17,053 --> 00:02:23,393
♪ <i>I was living in a devil town</i> ♪

39
00:02:23,476 --> 00:02:29,566
♪ <i>Didn't know
it was a devil town</i> ♪

40
00:02:30,733 --> 00:02:35,363
♪ <i>Oh, Lord,
it really brings me down</i> ♪

41
00:02:35,405 --> 00:02:38,032
♪ <i>About the devil town</i> ♪

42
00:02:42,662 --> 00:02:47,292
{\an8}♪ (SUSPENSEFUL MUSIC PLAYING) ♪

43
00:02:47,375 --> 00:02:49,502
MICHAEL SCOTT:
<i>To hear that my sentencing</i>

44
00:02:49,586 --> 00:02:51,838
<i>had been overturned was huge.</i>

45
00:02:53,464 --> 00:02:55,466
{\an8}Oh, man, it was...

46
00:02:55,550 --> 00:02:58,011
{\an8}I was-- I was standing
at my cell door when--

47
00:02:58,094 --> 00:03:00,346
{\an8}(STUTTERS)
'cause the officer comes to you,

48
00:03:00,430 --> 00:03:02,599
'cause it doesn't come
at the normal time of mail.

49
00:03:02,682 --> 00:03:03,725
Legal mail is different.

50
00:03:03,766 --> 00:03:06,728
They bring it to you,
and I'm like, "Hey, what's this?

51
00:03:06,769 --> 00:03:08,813
It's from
the Court of Criminal Appeals."

52
00:03:08,897 --> 00:03:11,232
And I opened it up
and went, "Oh, wow!"

53
00:03:11,274 --> 00:03:13,276
♪ (MUSIC CONTINUES) ♪

54
00:03:13,318 --> 00:03:15,945
MICHAEL: <i>What they overturned
our convictions on</i>

55
00:03:15,987 --> 00:03:18,031
<i>was a Sixth Amendment violation</i>

56
00:03:18,948 --> 00:03:22,577
of a right
to confrontation, specifically.

57
00:03:23,411 --> 00:03:24,954
<i>In Springsteen's trial,</i>

58
00:03:25,038 --> 00:03:27,290
<i>they took my written statement
and they had</i>

59
00:03:27,332 --> 00:03:30,960
<i>an officer read parts
of it into the record.</i>

60
00:03:31,044 --> 00:03:36,132
<i>In my trial, they took excerpts
out of his video interrogation.</i>

61
00:03:38,551 --> 00:03:41,471
<i>The Constitution says,
"You have an absolute right</i>

62
00:03:41,512 --> 00:03:44,599
<i>to confront your accuser."</i>

63
00:03:44,641 --> 00:03:47,560
<i>I refused to get
on the stand at his trial.</i>

64
00:03:47,644 --> 00:03:50,813
<i>He refused to get
on the stand at my trial.</i>

65
00:03:50,855 --> 00:03:54,484
So, where in there
were we allowed

66
00:03:54,567 --> 00:03:58,029
to confront our "accusers"?

67
00:03:59,656 --> 00:04:02,325
{\an8}This was sort of
a gray area of the law.

68
00:04:02,408 --> 00:04:04,494
{\an8}And while this case
was on appeal,

69
00:04:04,535 --> 00:04:05,828
<i>the Supreme Court
of the United States</i>

70
00:04:05,912 --> 00:04:07,330
<i>came down with a decision</i>

71
00:04:07,372 --> 00:04:09,040
that really totally
changed the law

72
00:04:09,123 --> 00:04:10,959
and made it
much more black and white,

73
00:04:11,000 --> 00:04:13,127
{\an8}which got this case reversed.

74
00:04:13,169 --> 00:04:14,295
{\an8}REPORTER 1:
<i>New developments today</i>

75
00:04:14,337 --> 00:04:16,506
<i>in one of Austin's
most notorious crimes.</i>

76
00:04:16,589 --> 00:04:18,341
REPORTER 2: <i>The Texas Court
of Criminal Appeals ruled</i>

77
00:04:18,383 --> 00:04:20,593
<i>that Michael Scott got
an unfair capital murder trial</i>

78
00:04:20,677 --> 00:04:21,594
<i>in Travis County.</i>

79
00:04:21,678 --> 00:04:22,845
REPORTER 3:
<i>They say his confession</i>

80
00:04:22,887 --> 00:04:24,973
<i>was improperly introduced
to jurors</i>

81
00:04:25,014 --> 00:04:27,141
<i>and he didn't get
to face Robert Springsteen,</i>

82
00:04:27,183 --> 00:04:28,518
<i>one of his accusers.</i>

83
00:04:28,601 --> 00:04:30,687
REPORTER 4:
<i>Scott's and Springsteen's
convictions were overturned.</i>

84
00:04:30,728 --> 00:04:32,146
REPORTER 5:
<i>The appellate court ruled that</i>

85
00:04:32,188 --> 00:04:34,232
<i>the men's constitutional right
was violated.</i>

86
00:04:34,315 --> 00:04:36,567
{\an8}Every time I hear those words

87
00:04:36,651 --> 00:04:40,405
{\an8}that their rights
were violated, I don't...

88
00:04:42,573 --> 00:04:44,826
Our girls were murdered.

89
00:04:46,661 --> 00:04:48,413
PAUL JOHNSON:
<i>The highest court in Texas</i>

90
00:04:48,496 --> 00:04:52,041
{\an8}decided on a vote
of five to four.

91
00:04:52,125 --> 00:04:54,877
{\an8}So, four of the justices said,

92
00:04:54,919 --> 00:04:56,087
{\an8}"Nope, it didn't make
any difference,"

93
00:04:56,170 --> 00:04:58,381
but it just takes a majority.

94
00:04:58,423 --> 00:05:00,049
Five of them said it did,

95
00:05:00,091 --> 00:05:02,051
so they're going back
for a new trial.

96
00:05:02,635 --> 00:05:05,346
{\an8}CLAIRE:

97
00:05:09,100 --> 00:05:11,519
Six and a half, seven years.

98
00:05:14,689 --> 00:05:16,357
That's a--
That's a rough guess...

99
00:05:17,025 --> 00:05:18,693
on-- on that one.

100
00:05:18,735 --> 00:05:20,486
CARLOS GARCIA: <i>One of the things
that people don't get</i>

101
00:05:20,570 --> 00:05:22,196
{\an8}is the sequence of events.

102
00:05:22,238 --> 00:05:23,865
{\an8}The crime happened in '91.

103
00:05:24,615 --> 00:05:26,200
{\an8}All right. In '99,

104
00:05:26,242 --> 00:05:29,078
{\an8}Michael Scott confesses,
Springsteen confesses.

105
00:05:29,162 --> 00:05:32,749
Springsteen loses his case,
Scott loses his case.

106
00:05:32,832 --> 00:05:34,459
One gets death, one gets life.

107
00:05:34,542 --> 00:05:37,128
Seven years later, their--
both cases are reversed

108
00:05:37,920 --> 00:05:39,589
and they come back
for new trials.

109
00:05:39,630 --> 00:05:42,050
♪ (SUSPENSEFUL MUSIC PLAYING) ♪

110
00:05:42,091 --> 00:05:44,510
{\an8}PAUL: <i>So the district attorney
decided</i>

111
00:05:44,594 --> 00:05:48,973
{\an8}that since the confessions
indicate that the girls,

112
00:05:49,057 --> 00:05:51,768
or at least one of the girls,
was raped,

113
00:05:51,809 --> 00:05:55,605
<i>they might find DNA evidence
to use for a new trial.</i>

114
00:05:55,646 --> 00:05:57,065
{\an8}INVESTIGATOR:

115
00:05:58,024 --> 00:06:01,277
{\an8}ROB:

116
00:06:01,319 --> 00:06:04,655
{\an8}PAUL: <i>At the first trial,
they had already done profiling,</i>

117
00:06:04,739 --> 00:06:09,452
and there was no foreign DNA
on those swabs.

118
00:06:09,494 --> 00:06:14,290
That's because at the time
they needed globs of liquids.

119
00:06:15,500 --> 00:06:20,254
<i>But now, they tested it
by kind of a new technology</i>

120
00:06:20,296 --> 00:06:21,714
called Y-STR,

121
00:06:22,882 --> 00:06:26,761
<i>which can find much
smaller amounts of DNA.</i>

122
00:06:28,388 --> 00:06:32,892
{\an8}The state had gotten knowledge
of this new Y-STR testing

123
00:06:32,975 --> 00:06:35,311
{\an8}and thought, "This could be it,
'cause now we're not allowed

124
00:06:35,353 --> 00:06:38,022
to use these confessions
against each other.

125
00:06:38,106 --> 00:06:40,650
We're going to prove
with science that he did it."

126
00:06:40,733 --> 00:06:43,820
<i>There's an X chromosome,
and there's a Y chromosome.</i>

127
00:06:43,861 --> 00:06:46,823
<i>If you're XX, you're a female.
If you're XY, you're a male.</i>

128
00:06:46,864 --> 00:06:51,619
<i>Y-STR, what it does
is it ignores the female DNA.</i>

129
00:06:51,661 --> 00:06:53,663
We get a call
from the judge's office saying,

130
00:06:53,704 --> 00:06:56,707
"Hey, can you come
and meet right now?"

131
00:06:57,458 --> 00:06:58,793
<i>When we got there,</i>

132
00:06:58,835 --> 00:07:00,837
<i>prosecutors said, "We have found</i>

133
00:07:00,920 --> 00:07:04,507
a full Y-STR profile
in Amy Ayers."

134
00:07:07,343 --> 00:07:09,512
{\an8}"And it doesn't match
any of your...

135
00:07:09,554 --> 00:07:11,514
of your defendants.

136
00:07:11,556 --> 00:07:13,850
<i>Your two
or the other two, either."</i>

137
00:07:15,518 --> 00:07:17,353
♪ (MUSIC FADES) ♪

138
00:07:20,857 --> 00:07:22,859
{\an8}The most important thing
DNA stands for

139
00:07:22,900 --> 00:07:24,986
{\an8}is it's someone else.

140
00:07:25,027 --> 00:07:28,322
{\an8}It is not any one
of these four boys.

141
00:07:28,364 --> 00:07:32,618
And so I suppose the state
of Texas now is going to say

142
00:07:32,702 --> 00:07:36,372
that there were really five boys
there instead of four.

143
00:07:36,456 --> 00:07:39,750
Never mind that is inconsistent
with the theories

144
00:07:39,834 --> 00:07:42,753
they used to try them
the first time.

145
00:07:42,837 --> 00:07:45,047
They thought they were going
to get a Y-STR result

146
00:07:45,131 --> 00:07:47,049
and hammer the point home.

147
00:07:47,091 --> 00:07:50,303
Instead, they got the truth
and they can't deal with it.

148
00:07:54,015 --> 00:07:55,600
AMBER FARRELLY:
<i>The theory comes up</i>

149
00:07:55,683 --> 00:07:59,353
by the state of Texas,
"Well, it must be contamination.

150
00:07:59,395 --> 00:08:01,522
Something had to happen
to this sample."

151
00:08:02,148 --> 00:08:04,233
{\an8}It could be contamination

152
00:08:04,275 --> 00:08:07,320
{\an8}or it could be
another, uh, person involved.

153
00:08:08,029 --> 00:08:10,072
{\an8}♪ (TENSE MUSIC PLAYING) ♪

154
00:08:10,114 --> 00:08:12,950
{\an8}PAUL: <i>So the crime scene
collection procedures</i>

155
00:08:13,034 --> 00:08:14,535
<i>in 1991,</i>

156
00:08:15,411 --> 00:08:18,080
<i>with the lab processing
procedures</i>

157
00:08:18,122 --> 00:08:20,458
<i>and handling procedures.</i>

158
00:08:20,541 --> 00:08:23,753
Y-STR can pick up
cast-off skin cells.

159
00:08:23,836 --> 00:08:28,424
So, anybody that had contact,
was even close to these swabs,

160
00:08:28,466 --> 00:08:30,801
<i>could have contaminated
the evidence.</i>

161
00:08:30,885 --> 00:08:32,762
ANGIE AYERS: <i>You've got to think
of the crime scene.</i>

162
00:08:32,803 --> 00:08:33,846
{\an8}And you've got, I don't know,

163
00:08:33,930 --> 00:08:36,182
{\an8}four inches of water
that has flooded.

164
00:08:36,265 --> 00:08:39,310
{\an8}You've got naked girls
on the floor with water.

165
00:08:39,393 --> 00:08:41,145
{\an8}It could be anything.
It could be...

166
00:08:41,938 --> 00:08:42,980
{\an8}I mean, it's a restaurant.

167
00:08:43,064 --> 00:08:45,274
{\an8}People are in there
all the time.

168
00:08:45,316 --> 00:08:48,236
AMBER: <i>So they began testing
every firefighter</i>

169
00:08:48,277 --> 00:08:51,072
<i>that was there on the scene,
over 50 of them.</i>

170
00:08:51,113 --> 00:08:53,115
<i>Any of the officers
that were there,</i>

171
00:08:53,199 --> 00:08:55,451
<i>any other
law enforcement personnel,</i>

172
00:08:55,493 --> 00:08:58,746
<i>the medical examiner.
They test Amy's father...</i>

173
00:09:00,206 --> 00:09:01,374
<i>her brother...</i>

174
00:09:03,042 --> 00:09:05,378
anybody who else
that they think it could be.

175
00:09:06,712 --> 00:09:08,673
<i>After testing more than 200 men</i>

176
00:09:08,756 --> 00:09:11,342
<i>who just even looked
at this body,</i>

177
00:09:11,425 --> 00:09:13,886
<i>were anywhere near this body,</i>

178
00:09:13,970 --> 00:09:15,638
there's nobody else,

179
00:09:15,721 --> 00:09:18,558
except for maybe somebody
that's not in this pile,

180
00:09:18,641 --> 00:09:20,142
i.e., the real killer.

181
00:09:20,226 --> 00:09:22,645
The idea that it could
be contamination, yes.

182
00:09:22,687 --> 00:09:25,022
It's a possibility.
Is it probable? No.

183
00:09:25,106 --> 00:09:27,817
A full profile inside
a vaginal swab of...

184
00:09:28,359 --> 00:09:30,152
of the youngest victim?

185
00:09:30,194 --> 00:09:33,239
No. That's not contamination.
That's your killer.

186
00:09:35,700 --> 00:09:37,076
(ROADWAY NOISE)

187
00:09:37,159 --> 00:09:40,663
{\an8}(INDISTINCT CHATTER)

188
00:09:42,582 --> 00:09:44,667
{\an8}Since the original trial
of this case,

189
00:09:46,085 --> 00:09:48,754
{\an8}new developments
in DNA technology

190
00:09:48,838 --> 00:09:50,089
have become available.

191
00:09:51,007 --> 00:09:52,925
Currently, it is clear to me

192
00:09:53,759 --> 00:09:56,012
that our evidence in the death

193
00:09:56,095 --> 00:10:00,516
of these four young women
includes DNA from one male

194
00:10:00,558 --> 00:10:02,977
whose identity
is not yet known to us.

195
00:10:03,019 --> 00:10:06,647
Given that,
I could not in good conscience

196
00:10:06,689 --> 00:10:08,524
allow this case to go to trial

197
00:10:08,566 --> 00:10:10,943
before the identity
of this male donor

198
00:10:11,027 --> 00:10:14,447
is determined
and the full truth is known.

199
00:10:14,530 --> 00:10:17,199
♪ (RISING TENSE MUSIC PLAYING) ♪

200
00:10:25,708 --> 00:10:29,670
(CROWD CHEERING AND APPLAUDING)

201
00:10:31,213 --> 00:10:34,175
♪ (MUSIC CONTINUES) ♪

202
00:10:35,509 --> 00:10:37,678
JOE SAWYER: <i>For the first time
in the history</i>

203
00:10:37,720 --> 00:10:40,264
<i>of criminal justice
in the state of Texas,</i>

204
00:10:41,307 --> 00:10:44,226
{\an8}two young men were released
on personal bond

205
00:10:44,310 --> 00:10:46,646
{\an8}on four counts
of capital murder.

206
00:10:47,271 --> 00:10:49,190
I determined I couldn't keep

207
00:10:49,231 --> 00:10:50,941
those defendants
in jail any longer,

208
00:10:51,025 --> 00:10:53,611
so I let them out
on personal bond

209
00:10:53,694 --> 00:10:56,697
and gave the state a deadline
to be ready to go to trial.

210
00:11:00,117 --> 00:11:02,620
ROSEMARY: <i>I remain confident
that Robert Springsteen</i>

211
00:11:02,703 --> 00:11:05,581
<i>and Michael Scott
are both responsible</i>

212
00:11:05,623 --> 00:11:07,583
<i>for the deaths
at the yogurt shop.</i>

213
00:11:07,667 --> 00:11:08,918
<i>I can assure this community</i>

214
00:11:08,959 --> 00:11:11,295
<i>that we're going to continue
to work on this case</i>

215
00:11:11,379 --> 00:11:12,922
until we take it to trial again.

216
00:11:13,839 --> 00:11:15,716
First thing I told Robert

217
00:11:15,758 --> 00:11:17,426
was that I was sorry
it took so damn long

218
00:11:17,468 --> 00:11:18,969
for this day to come.

219
00:11:19,053 --> 00:11:21,597
He hasn't been free
for over ten years.

220
00:11:21,639 --> 00:11:24,308
The promise I made him
is that he's never going back.

221
00:11:25,101 --> 00:11:26,060
We're going to win this case,

222
00:11:26,102 --> 00:11:27,395
and I don't care
how that's done.

223
00:11:27,436 --> 00:11:29,188
Trial, dismissal, whatever.

224
00:11:29,271 --> 00:11:30,856
REPORTER 6: What does
it feel like to be out?

225
00:11:30,940 --> 00:11:32,900
It's wonderful,
and I'd like to thank God

226
00:11:32,942 --> 00:11:36,570
and my families and my attorney
for this opportunity. Thank you.

227
00:11:37,446 --> 00:11:39,407
(CROWD CHEERS AND APPLAUDS)

228
00:11:40,741 --> 00:11:42,243
REPORTER 7:
<i>Knowing that it is a possibility</i>

229
00:11:42,284 --> 00:11:45,579
{\an8}<i>a match may never be found
doesn't bother this mom.</i>

230
00:11:45,621 --> 00:11:47,331
{\an8}The case is still a good case.

231
00:11:47,415 --> 00:11:49,125
{\an8}We didn't need the DNA
in the first place.

232
00:11:49,166 --> 00:11:51,043
They are going to pay every day
of their life.

233
00:11:51,127 --> 00:11:52,628
(CAMERA SHUTTERS CLICKING)

234
00:11:52,712 --> 00:11:54,296
And I would be, if I were them,

235
00:11:54,338 --> 00:11:55,631
I would probably
just stay in the jail

236
00:11:55,715 --> 00:11:59,218
where it's safer for them
because there's a lot of people

237
00:11:59,301 --> 00:12:01,137
who are upset over this.

238
00:12:01,178 --> 00:12:03,973
(INDISTINCT CHATTER)

239
00:12:12,606 --> 00:12:14,233
{\an8}CARLOS:
<i>This case is very simple.</i>

240
00:12:14,900 --> 00:12:16,569
It's about a bad interrogation

241
00:12:17,820 --> 00:12:19,655
{\an8}in which interrogators
crossed the line

242
00:12:19,739 --> 00:12:23,492
{\an8}into using the kind of tactics
we know cause false confessions.

243
00:12:23,576 --> 00:12:26,036
They suffer from something
called confirmation bias,

244
00:12:26,120 --> 00:12:30,374
which means that they're looking
for any... evidence of guilt

245
00:12:30,458 --> 00:12:32,460
because that's what
they already think.

246
00:12:32,501 --> 00:12:34,670
CLAIRE:
<i>So, this is Carlos Garcia,</i>

247
00:12:34,754 --> 00:12:37,590
<i>and I think what he's doing here</i>

248
00:12:37,673 --> 00:12:41,177
is practicing
his opening statement

249
00:12:41,260 --> 00:12:45,931
{\an8}um, for the retrial,
uh, that would have come up in,

250
00:12:46,015 --> 00:12:50,186
I think it was 2008, 2009
he was doing this.

251
00:12:50,227 --> 00:12:54,607
CARLOS: <i>Trying to get, um,
Michael to remember details.</i>

252
00:12:54,690 --> 00:12:56,942
<i>And Michael gets scared,
and he can't remember.</i>

253
00:12:58,027 --> 00:13:00,029
<i>Well, he's going
to start telling,</i>

254
00:13:00,070 --> 00:13:03,032
<i>"That's the gun, ain't it?
Come on, tell me."</i>

255
00:13:03,115 --> 00:13:05,242
Michael will say,
"Yeah, that's the gun.

256
00:13:05,326 --> 00:13:07,036
The gun he shot the girls with."

257
00:13:09,038 --> 00:13:10,498
{\an8}Paul Johnson knew,

258
00:13:10,539 --> 00:13:13,000
{\an8}as he's watching
on that videotape...

259
00:13:13,042 --> 00:13:15,169
He's sitting
in some other room close by,

260
00:13:15,211 --> 00:13:16,712
watching this stuff go down.

261
00:13:16,796 --> 00:13:18,547
And Paul Johnson knows
at that moment

262
00:13:18,589 --> 00:13:20,508
that that's not the gun.

263
00:13:20,549 --> 00:13:22,593
Because Paul Johnson
had it tested.

264
00:13:24,595 --> 00:13:26,764
And the Austin Police Department
ballistics person says,

265
00:13:26,847 --> 00:13:28,682
"It's very unlikely
that this gun that you have,

266
00:13:28,724 --> 00:13:31,727
Paul Johnson, is the gun
that killed those girls."

267
00:13:31,769 --> 00:13:33,813
CLAIRE: I don't think
quite enough emphasis

268
00:13:33,896 --> 00:13:37,274
had been put
in the first trial on...

269
00:13:37,358 --> 00:13:39,485
the fact that the gun
did not match,

270
00:13:39,568 --> 00:13:42,029
that there was really
no physical evidence

271
00:13:42,071 --> 00:13:44,198
linking these boys to the crime.

272
00:13:44,240 --> 00:13:46,742
APD knew that the gun
did not match,

273
00:13:46,784 --> 00:13:49,954
even though they're indicating
in Michael Scott's interrogation

274
00:13:50,037 --> 00:13:52,414
that they had the matching gun.

275
00:13:53,624 --> 00:13:57,086
In 17 years,
since this crime was committed,

276
00:13:57,127 --> 00:14:00,548
not one single atom
of physical evidence

277
00:14:00,589 --> 00:14:04,426
connecting these boys
to that crime scene

278
00:14:04,468 --> 00:14:07,179
has ever been found. Not one.

279
00:14:08,556 --> 00:14:10,599
(SIGHS) How long was that?

280
00:14:10,641 --> 00:14:13,477
-CLAIRE: Uh, 48 minutes.
-Okay.

281
00:14:13,561 --> 00:14:16,063
Yeah, that needs to be cut down
by 20 minutes.

282
00:14:16,814 --> 00:14:17,815
Man.

283
00:14:19,275 --> 00:14:22,570
CARLOS: <i>In my own opinion,
Johnson screwed it up.</i>

284
00:14:22,611 --> 00:14:26,615
Not only did he screw it up,
he hid things that did not fit.

285
00:14:28,868 --> 00:14:31,954
PAUL:
<i>So every test from the lead,</i>

286
00:14:32,037 --> 00:14:33,914
from the bullets
that were in the girls,

287
00:14:33,956 --> 00:14:37,418
they can't say
it really did come

288
00:14:37,459 --> 00:14:40,504
from Maurice's gun
or for sure that it didn't.

289
00:14:40,588 --> 00:14:42,756
♪ (TENSE MUSIC PLAYING) ♪

290
00:14:42,798 --> 00:14:44,633
<i>What Maurice had said was,</i>

291
00:14:44,675 --> 00:14:46,927
"This gun
that I was arrested with

292
00:14:46,969 --> 00:14:51,181
is the gun that Forrest took
to kill the girls."

293
00:14:53,058 --> 00:14:55,519
PAUL: <i>But we have always known</i>

294
00:14:55,603 --> 00:14:58,981
<i>that Maurice had access
to other guns.</i>

295
00:14:59,023 --> 00:15:02,151
<i>So, even though we couldn't
get a positive identification,</i>

296
00:15:02,234 --> 00:15:04,278
it still wouldn't have
cleared Maurice

297
00:15:04,320 --> 00:15:06,363
because we knew
he had other guns.

298
00:15:07,865 --> 00:15:09,325
<i>This gun
that he was arrested with,</i>

299
00:15:09,408 --> 00:15:12,036
<i>it would only be a match
if you believe Maurice.</i>

300
00:15:14,079 --> 00:15:15,623
<i>I think I'm an honest person.</i>

301
00:15:16,457 --> 00:15:17,833
<i>I tell the truth.</i>

302
00:15:17,917 --> 00:15:20,044
<i>I think I'm honest
in everything I do,</i>

303
00:15:20,127 --> 00:15:25,507
<i>and I think my investigation
was done in an honest way.</i>

304
00:15:27,885 --> 00:15:31,180
<i>And to me,
the convictions confirmed</i>

305
00:15:31,221 --> 00:15:34,016
<i>what I had always thought,</i>

306
00:15:34,058 --> 00:15:37,519
<i>that not only had they done it,
but that we proved</i>

307
00:15:37,603 --> 00:15:40,105
<i>beyond a reasonable doubt
that they had done it.</i>

308
00:15:45,486 --> 00:15:48,405
{\an8}♪ (INTENSE MUSIC BUILDUP) ♪

309
00:15:52,493 --> 00:15:54,203
{\an8}REPORTER 8: <i>Michael Scott
and Robert Springsteen</i>

310
00:15:54,244 --> 00:15:56,747
{\an8}<i>have walked into court dozens
of times before,</i>

311
00:15:56,830 --> 00:16:00,209
{\an8}<i>but this was the first time
they walked in as free men.</i>

312
00:16:00,292 --> 00:16:02,211
{\an8}<i>Both men have been
out of jail since June,</i>

313
00:16:02,294 --> 00:16:04,254
<i>when State District Judge
Mike Lynch</i>

314
00:16:04,338 --> 00:16:05,881
<i>released them on bond,</i>

315
00:16:05,923 --> 00:16:07,758
<i>and said prosecutors
had to put up</i>

316
00:16:07,841 --> 00:16:09,301
<i>or shut up by today.</i>

317
00:16:10,719 --> 00:16:12,680
BAILIFF: Courtroom,
come to order, please.
Everyone rise.

318
00:16:12,721 --> 00:16:14,890
167th judicial district court
of Travis County

319
00:16:14,932 --> 00:16:15,933
is now in session.

320
00:16:16,016 --> 00:16:17,309
The honorable
Mike Lynch presiding.

321
00:16:17,393 --> 00:16:18,477
You may be seated.

322
00:16:18,894 --> 00:16:20,229
(CLEARS THROAT)

323
00:16:22,606 --> 00:16:25,359
MIKE LYNCH: Good afternoon.
Uh, we're on the record.

324
00:16:25,401 --> 00:16:27,236
In August,
the court issued an order

325
00:16:27,277 --> 00:16:30,990
{\an8}due to the unique nature
and circumstances of this case

326
00:16:31,073 --> 00:16:33,993
{\an8}that set today as a date

327
00:16:34,076 --> 00:16:36,787
{\an8}for the parties
to announce to the court

328
00:16:36,870 --> 00:16:40,374
whether or not they'd be ready
to begin a jury trial.

329
00:16:42,001 --> 00:16:46,296
{\an8}Um, as the court is well aware,
the state is conducting testing

330
00:16:46,380 --> 00:16:50,467
{\an8}to, uh, identify
the male donor

331
00:16:50,551 --> 00:16:53,929
{\an8}that, uh, we, uh, uncovered
through some Y-STR testing

332
00:16:54,013 --> 00:16:55,597
from one of the vaginal swabs

333
00:16:55,639 --> 00:16:57,599
of one of the victims
in our case.

334
00:16:57,683 --> 00:16:59,435
So because of that, Your Honor,
given the fact

335
00:16:59,476 --> 00:17:01,979
that we have not yet
identified the male donor,

336
00:17:02,062 --> 00:17:03,689
the state sees
no other viable option

337
00:17:03,772 --> 00:17:05,107
at this point, Your Honor,

338
00:17:05,190 --> 00:17:09,028
but to, uh, file a motion
with the court for a dismissal

339
00:17:09,111 --> 00:17:11,071
pending further investigation
of this matter

340
00:17:11,113 --> 00:17:13,449
into the identity
of this male donor.

341
00:17:13,490 --> 00:17:15,075
MIKE:
Anything else you want to say?

342
00:17:15,117 --> 00:17:16,618
EFRAIN DE LA FUENTE: No, sir.

343
00:17:16,660 --> 00:17:20,122
Apparently having no objections,
the court will grant the motions

344
00:17:20,164 --> 00:17:23,000
and as to each indictment,

345
00:17:23,083 --> 00:17:25,169
as to each
of the two defendants.

346
00:17:26,670 --> 00:17:28,338
When the state
wasn't ready by that date

347
00:17:28,422 --> 00:17:29,840
because of
these evidentiary issues,

348
00:17:29,923 --> 00:17:31,008
I pretty much forced them

349
00:17:31,091 --> 00:17:33,635
to dismiss the case
without prejudice.

350
00:17:34,970 --> 00:17:37,431
<i>I think we were
just enforcing the law</i>

351
00:17:37,473 --> 00:17:39,099
<i>and doing what was fair.</i>

352
00:17:41,393 --> 00:17:45,397
<i>I can see how most everybody
is unsatisfied...</i>

353
00:17:45,481 --> 00:17:46,482
Excuse me.

354
00:17:48,275 --> 00:17:51,278
...with there being
no final determination.

355
00:17:51,945 --> 00:17:54,156
♪ (MUSIC CONTINUES) ♪

356
00:17:54,239 --> 00:17:55,824
<i>But, I mean,
I'm assuming the defendants</i>

357
00:17:55,866 --> 00:17:58,994
<i>are very happy to be out of jail
and not under charge anymore.</i>

358
00:17:59,078 --> 00:18:00,454
(INDISTINCT CHATTER)

359
00:18:00,496 --> 00:18:02,039
REPORTER 9: Mr. Springsteen,
can we talk to you?

360
00:18:02,122 --> 00:18:04,750
No comment right now, please.
(CLEARS THROAT)

361
00:18:06,502 --> 00:18:08,295
JOE: <i>There is no victory here.</i>

362
00:18:08,337 --> 00:18:10,005
<i>The primary question
in this case</i>

363
00:18:10,047 --> 00:18:11,423
<i>has still not been answered.</i>

364
00:18:11,507 --> 00:18:13,592
Who committed these crimes?

365
00:18:13,675 --> 00:18:17,137
Where are those people?
And we need to find them.

366
00:18:17,179 --> 00:18:19,556
Uh, but most of all,
I think we should

367
00:18:19,640 --> 00:18:23,018
reserve our sympathy
and our concern

368
00:18:23,060 --> 00:18:24,311
for the families of those girls.

369
00:18:26,939 --> 00:18:29,149
BOB AYERS: <i>You can go to court,
but you can't get justice.</i>

370
00:18:29,817 --> 00:18:31,527
<i>All you get is the law.</i>

371
00:18:31,610 --> 00:18:34,905
{\an8}Justice to you may be different
than justice to me

372
00:18:34,988 --> 00:18:38,075
{\an8}or anybody else
down the street.

373
00:18:38,158 --> 00:18:40,786
-Yeah.
-Justice may be revenge.

374
00:18:44,039 --> 00:18:45,916
♪ (MUSIC FADES) ♪

375
00:18:47,042 --> 00:18:49,545
Make no mistake... Uh...

376
00:18:54,883 --> 00:18:57,177
this was a difficult decision

377
00:18:57,219 --> 00:18:59,721
and one I'd rather not have
to make.

378
00:18:59,805 --> 00:19:01,890
But I believe it is
the best legal

379
00:19:01,974 --> 00:19:04,184
and strategic course to take...

380
00:19:04,226 --> 00:19:07,229
{\an8}to ultimately retry
both Springsteen and Scott.

381
00:19:07,271 --> 00:19:11,400
{\an8}REPORTER 10:

382
00:19:11,441 --> 00:19:15,320
{\an8}There is no database for
this particular type of profile.

383
00:19:15,404 --> 00:19:17,614
This is a Y-only profile,

384
00:19:17,698 --> 00:19:19,408
and there's no database
for that.

385
00:19:19,491 --> 00:19:20,492
REPORTER 11: Can you talk about

386
00:19:20,576 --> 00:19:21,910
what this means
for the justice system?

387
00:19:21,952 --> 00:19:24,913
Because either you've let
two murderers
walk out of court today,

388
00:19:24,955 --> 00:19:27,082
or the-- or the wrong guys
have been locked up.

389
00:19:27,166 --> 00:19:28,959
How should people have faith
in the justice system

390
00:19:29,042 --> 00:19:32,296
when neither one of those seems
to be a good outcome, is it?

391
00:19:32,379 --> 00:19:34,131
Twenty-four citizens
of Travis County

392
00:19:34,214 --> 00:19:36,967
have heard this case,
uh, and have convicted

393
00:19:37,050 --> 00:19:38,719
both of these men before.

394
00:19:38,760 --> 00:19:41,388
Uh, this is just
a new turn of events.

395
00:19:41,430 --> 00:19:44,933
Um, we need to keep searching
for the donor of this DNA.

396
00:19:44,975 --> 00:19:47,102
I don't, as I said,
believe it would be fair

397
00:19:47,186 --> 00:19:48,604
to give it to a jury now.

398
00:19:48,687 --> 00:19:51,773
Just ask them
to guess or surmise. Uh...

399
00:19:52,399 --> 00:19:53,609
And so we'll wait.

400
00:19:57,070 --> 00:20:00,824
♪ (PENSIVE PIANO MUSIC
PLAYING) ♪

401
00:20:00,908 --> 00:20:02,034
GUEST 1: How are you?

402
00:20:02,117 --> 00:20:06,538
(GUESTS CHEERING AND APPLAUDING)

403
00:20:07,122 --> 00:20:10,375
(INDISTINCT CHATTER)

404
00:20:11,251 --> 00:20:13,754
-Congratulations.
-Thank you.

405
00:20:13,795 --> 00:20:16,381
(INDISTINCT CHATTER)

406
00:20:22,763 --> 00:20:27,476
(INDISTINCT CHATTER)

407
00:20:27,559 --> 00:20:30,938
FRIEND 1: And, uh, but just now
you looked, uh, confident today.

408
00:20:30,979 --> 00:20:32,439
You looked like...
You looked confident.

409
00:20:34,149 --> 00:20:36,818
CLAIRE: So this is his first day
as a free man.

410
00:20:39,071 --> 00:20:42,074
Mostly free,
out of prison anyway.

411
00:20:42,157 --> 00:20:44,243
FRIEND 1: <i>And you look great.
I mean, I think you look good.</i>

412
00:20:44,326 --> 00:20:46,995
<i>I think you look, uh, healthy
and you look...</i>

413
00:20:49,414 --> 00:20:50,832
CLAIRE: Even though the charges

414
00:20:50,874 --> 00:20:53,043
have been dropped
against you now,

415
00:20:54,169 --> 00:20:57,506
{\an8}you're very close to
having been exonerated

416
00:20:57,547 --> 00:20:59,132
{\an8}in the public view.

417
00:20:59,174 --> 00:21:00,592
I've not been exonerated.

418
00:21:01,677 --> 00:21:03,637
{\an8}My charges
have only been dismissed.

419
00:21:04,930 --> 00:21:06,014
{\an8}So, I went...

420
00:21:08,141 --> 00:21:12,521
{\an8}kind of from one... jail
to another.

421
00:21:13,313 --> 00:21:14,356
Shit.

422
00:21:16,066 --> 00:21:17,317
Fucking 100-dollar pair of pants

423
00:21:17,359 --> 00:21:19,736
and the damn belt
won't even fit in the loops.

424
00:21:19,820 --> 00:21:24,074
{\an8}It wasn't the exciting thing
that I guess a lot of people

425
00:21:24,825 --> 00:21:26,743
{\an8}would think that it would be

426
00:21:26,827 --> 00:21:29,705
<i>because you can't
not think about it.</i>

427
00:21:29,746 --> 00:21:33,542
<i>There's always that question,
"Will I ever be exonerated?"</i>

428
00:21:33,625 --> 00:21:35,836
-Hi! It's nice to meet you.
-SPEAKER 1: Producer with us.

429
00:21:35,877 --> 00:21:38,046
{\an8}Make yourselves at home, um...

430
00:21:38,130 --> 00:21:39,506
{\an8}I can start
another pot of coffee.

431
00:21:39,548 --> 00:21:41,758
{\an8}We got Gatorade
and Diet Dr. Pepper

432
00:21:41,842 --> 00:21:45,053
-and, of course, water. So...
-SPEAKER 1: Very sweet.
We're good.

433
00:21:45,137 --> 00:21:47,222
I think we just want to get
a little bit of B-roll,

434
00:21:47,306 --> 00:21:48,890
just, like, sort of
what are you doing

435
00:21:48,932 --> 00:21:51,018
on a daily basis now?

436
00:21:51,059 --> 00:21:53,228
ROBERT SPRINGSTEEN:
This here is my kitchen,

437
00:21:53,270 --> 00:21:55,981
so to speak. Um, I've got
a little toaster oven.

438
00:21:56,064 --> 00:21:57,607
I've got a microwave.

439
00:21:57,691 --> 00:21:59,109
<i>I've got a skillet.</i>

440
00:22:00,694 --> 00:22:03,864
♪ (MUSIC CONTINUES) ♪

441
00:22:05,407 --> 00:22:06,867
{\an8}ERIN MORIARTY:
<i>Robert Springsteen,</i>

442
00:22:06,908 --> 00:22:08,785
{\an8}<i>now 35 years old,</i>

443
00:22:08,869 --> 00:22:12,581
{\an8}<i>he never expected to spend
the past ten years in prison.</i>

444
00:22:12,664 --> 00:22:14,916
{\an8}There's been
a lot of hoopla and madness

445
00:22:15,000 --> 00:22:16,626
going on here
the last several years

446
00:22:16,710 --> 00:22:19,671
and I would like to get some of
the records set straight on this

447
00:22:19,755 --> 00:22:22,049
and have the people know
the truth.

448
00:22:22,090 --> 00:22:24,134
Were your fingerprints
ever found anywhere

449
00:22:24,217 --> 00:22:25,260
-at the yogurt shop?
-No.

450
00:22:25,302 --> 00:22:26,678
-Your blood?
-No.

451
00:22:26,762 --> 00:22:28,430
-Your DNA?
-No.

452
00:22:28,472 --> 00:22:30,223
-Any hair?
-No.

453
00:22:30,265 --> 00:22:33,060
ERIN: <i>But he does have trouble
explaining why,</i>

454
00:22:33,101 --> 00:22:36,605
<i>after denying for hours
he was involved,</i>

455
00:22:36,646 --> 00:22:39,107
<i>that he finally confessed
to the police.</i>

456
00:22:39,149 --> 00:22:41,777
-How does that happen?
-I don't-- I don't know.

457
00:22:41,860 --> 00:22:43,987
There's-- There's psychological
aspects to it

458
00:22:44,071 --> 00:22:46,198
that I don't understand.

459
00:22:47,991 --> 00:22:51,244
{\an8}CLAIRE:

460
00:22:56,666 --> 00:22:59,294
In a way, yes, and in a way, no.

461
00:22:59,378 --> 00:23:02,255
I've talked to several attorneys
and several experts,

462
00:23:03,590 --> 00:23:04,633
and they've all said,

463
00:23:04,716 --> 00:23:06,802
"You know, it--
It can happen to anybody."

464
00:23:08,053 --> 00:23:10,305
<i>And people
are just now really starting</i>

465
00:23:10,389 --> 00:23:13,683
<i>to find out the truth
about false confessions</i>

466
00:23:13,767 --> 00:23:15,185
<i>and coerced confessions.</i>

467
00:23:18,105 --> 00:23:19,106
{\an8}(BELLE BARKS)

468
00:23:19,147 --> 00:23:21,316
{\an8}-Good? Yeah. Kill him, Belle.
-(BELLE BARKS)

469
00:23:22,067 --> 00:23:24,528
Hello, Miss Belle.

470
00:23:24,611 --> 00:23:26,029
JOE: I've told you
all the line, right?

471
00:23:26,113 --> 00:23:28,156
That John Wisser asked me
what line of poetry

472
00:23:28,240 --> 00:23:31,660
I would use to characterize
the end of my case.

473
00:23:31,701 --> 00:23:34,830
And I told him
it was T.S. Eliot, you know?

474
00:23:34,871 --> 00:23:36,748
{\an8}<i>This is the way
the world will end</i>

475
00:23:36,832 --> 00:23:38,542
{\an8}<i>This is the way
the world will end</i>

476
00:23:38,625 --> 00:23:40,669
{\an8}<i>Not with a bang, but a whimper</i>

477
00:23:40,710 --> 00:23:42,838
I mean, it's dissatisfying.

478
00:23:43,463 --> 00:23:44,506
It's simply over

479
00:23:44,589 --> 00:23:46,383
because science
doesn't have an opinion.

480
00:23:47,050 --> 00:23:48,385
And here we sit.

481
00:23:49,052 --> 00:23:50,762
And there you go, by God.

482
00:23:51,972 --> 00:23:53,098
You want a cigar?

483
00:23:54,850 --> 00:23:57,144
-No, I'm good, thanks.
-JOE: Okay.

484
00:23:57,185 --> 00:24:00,355
I was just talking
to Judge Lynch this morning.

485
00:24:00,397 --> 00:24:03,316
I mean, this case is over,
but it's never gonna be over.

486
00:24:03,942 --> 00:24:04,943
And, I mean,

487
00:24:05,026 --> 00:24:06,862
that was one of the things
we talked about.

488
00:24:06,903 --> 00:24:10,198
He asked about you
and I told him.

489
00:24:10,282 --> 00:24:11,616
He thinks you're gone.

490
00:24:11,700 --> 00:24:12,993
(BELLE SNARLS)

491
00:24:13,034 --> 00:24:15,704
You know, I just said,
"You're in West Virginia

492
00:24:15,787 --> 00:24:16,955
and I told you

493
00:24:17,038 --> 00:24:19,833
that you're never coming back
to Texas."

494
00:24:19,875 --> 00:24:22,419
The DA's office
believes you're guilty.

495
00:24:22,502 --> 00:24:25,297
The cops, I mean,
are almost rabid about it.

496
00:24:26,131 --> 00:24:27,549
(BELLE SNARLS)

497
00:24:27,591 --> 00:24:29,259
If they could catch you
behind the wheel,

498
00:24:29,342 --> 00:24:31,261
you would not make it
out of Austin.

499
00:24:31,344 --> 00:24:33,722
They would find a reason
to put you in jail.

500
00:24:33,805 --> 00:24:35,515
That's what I'm saying.

501
00:24:35,557 --> 00:24:38,059
Even if the charges
were dropped,

502
00:24:38,143 --> 00:24:40,979
it would be
a sensational news story.

503
00:24:41,062 --> 00:24:43,648
You know,
"Yogurt shop defendant--"

504
00:24:43,732 --> 00:24:45,692
-(BELLE SNARLS)
-Belle, honest to God.

505
00:24:45,734 --> 00:24:47,569
Belle, I am going
to stick you...

506
00:24:47,652 --> 00:24:49,196
(BELLE GROWLS)

507
00:24:49,237 --> 00:24:52,240
No! No, I don't care
what you think.

508
00:24:52,324 --> 00:24:53,867
(BELLE GROWLS)

509
00:24:53,909 --> 00:24:58,288
♪ (SUSPENSEFUL MUSIC PLAYING) ♪

510
00:25:26,816 --> 00:25:28,944
ROBERT: I really like Texas.
I hate to leave,

511
00:25:29,027 --> 00:25:31,446
but it's the best thing
to do right now, so...

512
00:25:32,447 --> 00:25:36,076
{\an8}CLAIRE:

513
00:25:36,117 --> 00:25:39,287
Well, we don't know for sure
that it is,

514
00:25:39,371 --> 00:25:42,707
but it gives the appearance
of being pretty bad,

515
00:25:42,791 --> 00:25:45,627
and we just don't want there
to be any issues, you know?

516
00:25:45,669 --> 00:25:46,795
So...

517
00:25:47,629 --> 00:25:49,214
it's better to be safe
than sorry.

518
00:25:50,131 --> 00:25:54,052
♪ (MUSIC CONTINUES) ♪

519
00:25:54,135 --> 00:25:55,804
OFFICER 1: (OVER RADIO)
<i>Eastbound N2.</i>

520
00:25:55,845 --> 00:25:57,472
<i>There's a parking lot here.</i>

521
00:25:57,556 --> 00:26:00,559
{\an8}(POLICE SIRENS BLARING)

522
00:26:01,810 --> 00:26:04,312
{\an8}(POLICE CHATTER OVER RADIO)

523
00:26:05,814 --> 00:26:09,067
<i>EMS 10-18,
I've got an officer down.</i>

524
00:26:09,150 --> 00:26:11,653
REPORTER 12: <i>What started
as a routine traffic stop</i>

525
00:26:11,695 --> 00:26:13,738
<i>ended with the shooting death
of a man</i>

526
00:26:13,822 --> 00:26:16,157
<i>that had a history
with Austin police.</i>

527
00:26:16,199 --> 00:26:19,578
{\an8}The officer managed
to fire a single round

528
00:26:19,661 --> 00:26:22,080
{\an8}that did strike the suspect.

529
00:26:22,163 --> 00:26:23,915
{\an8}REPORTER 13: <i>We are discovering
the man killed</i>

530
00:26:23,999 --> 00:26:25,667
{\an8}<i>was Maurice Pierce.</i>

531
00:26:25,709 --> 00:26:28,211
{\an8}<i>Police say Pierce ran
through a stop sign</i>

532
00:26:28,295 --> 00:26:30,672
{\an8}and started jumping
over fences to get away

533
00:26:30,755 --> 00:26:31,756
{\an8}through this neighborhood.

534
00:26:31,840 --> 00:26:33,717
{\an8}When Wilson
finally caught up with him...

535
00:26:33,800 --> 00:26:35,760
The officer was attempting
to control him

536
00:26:35,844 --> 00:26:39,139
and get him in custody.
He said he felt something wet.

537
00:26:39,180 --> 00:26:41,349
He realized that Maurice
had gotten the--

538
00:26:41,433 --> 00:26:45,020
The knife off of his belt
and had cut his throat.

539
00:26:45,103 --> 00:26:47,772
REPORTER 13: <i>Officer Wilson
is in stable condition.</i>

540
00:26:47,856 --> 00:26:49,858
{\an8}REPORTER 14: <i>Minutes later,
neighbors called police</i>

541
00:26:49,899 --> 00:26:52,611
{\an8}<i>saying the attacker was dead
in a yard down the street.</i>

542
00:26:52,694 --> 00:26:54,070
{\an8}REPORTER 15:
<i>Maurice Pierce is a name</i>

543
00:26:54,154 --> 00:26:56,197
{\an8}<i>many Austinites know well,</i>

544
00:26:56,281 --> 00:26:58,950
{\an8}<i>connected to that infamous
yogurt shop murders.</i>

545
00:26:59,034 --> 00:27:00,702
REPORTER 16:
<i>Members of Pierce's family say</i>

546
00:27:00,744 --> 00:27:04,039
<i>that past followed him,
saying he didn't trust police.</i>

547
00:27:04,122 --> 00:27:06,249
♪ (SOMBER MUSIC PLAYING) ♪

548
00:27:06,333 --> 00:27:08,710
Senior Sergeant
of the homicide detective,

549
00:27:08,752 --> 00:27:11,713
the next morning, he called me
and I chewed his butt out.

550
00:27:13,131 --> 00:27:15,175
I said, you should have come
and got me that night.

551
00:27:15,216 --> 00:27:17,052
I don't want to hear
Maurice Pierce dead.

552
00:27:17,135 --> 00:27:19,220
I want to see
Maurice Pierce dead.

553
00:27:20,972 --> 00:27:24,225
What I had always hoped
was going to happen,

554
00:27:24,309 --> 00:27:25,769
that we would get evidence

555
00:27:25,852 --> 00:27:30,523
to get him to trial,
and it'd be for capital murder,

556
00:27:30,565 --> 00:27:32,901
and he would get
a life sentence.

557
00:27:33,401 --> 00:27:34,486
So when...

558
00:27:35,737 --> 00:27:38,281
I found out
that he had been killed,

559
00:27:38,948 --> 00:27:40,575
it really didn't bother me,

560
00:27:40,617 --> 00:27:42,952
which may sound harsh,
but it's true.

561
00:27:43,036 --> 00:27:45,372
♪ (MUSIC CONTINUES) ♪

562
00:27:46,122 --> 00:27:47,248
{\an8}CARLOS: <i>Over the years,</i>

563
00:27:47,290 --> 00:27:49,751
{\an8}Maurice Pierce
kept talking to the cops,

564
00:27:49,793 --> 00:27:51,419
{\an8}like, they'd interview him,

565
00:27:51,503 --> 00:27:53,213
{\an8}and he would always talk
to them.

566
00:27:55,340 --> 00:27:57,050
<i>Pierce was always afraid
of the cops.</i>

567
00:27:57,842 --> 00:27:59,511
<i>They kept bothering him,</i>

568
00:27:59,594 --> 00:28:01,596
<i>'cause he was always
that prime suspect.</i>

569
00:28:02,722 --> 00:28:05,100
<i>Johnson would go up
and bother him and talk to him,</i>

570
00:28:05,141 --> 00:28:06,685
<i>and he would always talk.</i>

571
00:28:07,977 --> 00:28:12,691
{\an8}PAUL:

572
00:28:12,774 --> 00:28:18,196
{\an8}PAUL:

573
00:28:18,905 --> 00:28:22,826
{\an8}MAURICE:

574
00:28:22,909 --> 00:28:29,374
{\an8}MAURICE:

575
00:28:29,666 --> 00:28:36,464
{\an8}MAURICE:

576
00:28:36,548 --> 00:28:43,471
{\an8}PAUL:

577
00:28:43,513 --> 00:28:44,764
{\an8}MAURICE:

578
00:28:45,014 --> 00:28:46,307
{\an8}PAUL:

579
00:28:46,391 --> 00:28:48,476
{\an8}MAURICE:

580
00:28:49,310 --> 00:28:54,858
{\an8}PAUL:

581
00:28:54,941 --> 00:28:57,485
{\an8}MAURICE:

582
00:28:57,527 --> 00:28:58,528
{\an8}PAUL:

583
00:28:58,611 --> 00:29:00,655
{\an8}MAURICE:

584
00:29:00,739 --> 00:29:05,285
{\an8}MAURICE:

585
00:29:05,326 --> 00:29:09,539
{\an8}MAURICE:

586
00:29:10,498 --> 00:29:12,083
{\an8}PAUL:

587
00:29:12,167 --> 00:29:14,294
{\an8}MAURICE:

588
00:29:14,335 --> 00:29:16,004
{\an8}PAUL:

589
00:29:16,045 --> 00:29:23,011
{\an8}MAURICE:

590
00:29:24,262 --> 00:29:26,055
{\an8}PAUL:

591
00:29:26,139 --> 00:29:27,223
{\an8}MAURICE:

592
00:29:27,307 --> 00:29:28,391
{\an8}PAUL:

593
00:29:28,475 --> 00:29:30,894
{\an8}MAURICE:

594
00:29:34,898 --> 00:29:41,571
{\an8}PAUL:

595
00:29:42,363 --> 00:29:45,909
{\an8}PAUL:

596
00:29:45,992 --> 00:29:48,703
{\an8}MAURICE:

597
00:29:48,787 --> 00:29:50,121
{\an8}PAUL:

598
00:29:50,205 --> 00:29:52,665
{\an8}MAURICE:

599
00:29:55,043 --> 00:29:58,213
CARLOS:
<i>Pierce died because of his PTSD.</i>

600
00:29:59,547 --> 00:30:01,382
<i>I have no doubt.</i>

601
00:30:01,424 --> 00:30:05,386
If Maurice Pierce doesn't decide
to take a gun to the mall

602
00:30:06,346 --> 00:30:10,225
on December 15th 1991,
he'd still be alive

603
00:30:10,308 --> 00:30:13,520
and none of us would be here
right now talking about this.

604
00:30:14,938 --> 00:30:17,857
♪ (MUSIC CONTINUES) ♪

605
00:30:46,094 --> 00:30:47,595
DAN JACKSON:
<i>I try not to keep,</i>

606
00:30:47,637 --> 00:30:49,389
<i>like, a lot of cop stuff
in my house.</i>

607
00:30:49,430 --> 00:30:51,558
I take my shoes off
at the front door,

608
00:30:51,599 --> 00:30:53,101
just try to leave it
as much as possible.

609
00:30:53,142 --> 00:30:54,602
{\an8}But then I come home
and work from home

610
00:30:54,644 --> 00:30:55,895
{\an8}for a couple hours every day.

611
00:30:55,937 --> 00:30:59,023
{\an8}(CHUCKLES) So I guess it's...
kind of moot in some sense.

612
00:31:01,109 --> 00:31:02,569
{\an8}<i>When I was
in the homicide division,</i>

613
00:31:02,610 --> 00:31:04,946
{\an8}<i>I solved a hundred percent
of my cases.</i>

614
00:31:05,029 --> 00:31:08,408
<i>I left there
with no open casework.</i>

615
00:31:08,449 --> 00:31:09,993
Maybe I jinxed myself,
came over here and like,

616
00:31:10,076 --> 00:31:12,495
"Oh, you think you're good?
Well, here's yogurt shop."

617
00:31:12,579 --> 00:31:13,788
(CHUCKLES)

618
00:31:15,206 --> 00:31:16,499
O.J. Simpson, you needed,

619
00:31:16,583 --> 00:31:18,668
like, a ton of blood, right,
for DNA back then.

620
00:31:18,751 --> 00:31:20,628
That's when DNA became kind of
a household thing,

621
00:31:20,670 --> 00:31:22,297
was the Simpson trial.

622
00:31:22,380 --> 00:31:25,425
And now we're talking picograms,

623
00:31:25,466 --> 00:31:29,012
which is, like, a thousandth
of a nanogram (STUTTERS)

624
00:31:29,095 --> 00:31:30,805
that you can't even see
with the naked eye.

625
00:31:30,889 --> 00:31:32,140
And it seems like

626
00:31:32,223 --> 00:31:34,017
each time you talk
to these labs,

627
00:31:34,100 --> 00:31:35,560
they're able to do more
with less.

628
00:31:37,395 --> 00:31:40,398
♪ (MUSIC CONTINUES) ♪

629
00:31:42,025 --> 00:31:44,444
(CAR KEYS JANGLING)

630
00:31:50,491 --> 00:31:51,993
♪ (MUSIC FADES) ♪

631
00:31:52,035 --> 00:31:53,536
Be real careful.

632
00:31:55,246 --> 00:31:56,372
There you go.

633
00:31:57,040 --> 00:31:59,834
{\an8}MARGARET:

634
00:31:59,876 --> 00:32:01,002
DAN: So this is reconstructed

635
00:32:01,085 --> 00:32:03,212
from the crime scene photos
and video.

636
00:32:03,296 --> 00:32:04,339
And, of course,

637
00:32:04,422 --> 00:32:06,007
this is the front where
all the customers would sit

638
00:32:06,090 --> 00:32:07,675
and then the back
where the fire started

639
00:32:07,717 --> 00:32:09,469
and the girls were.

640
00:32:11,346 --> 00:32:12,388
That is the first thing we see

641
00:32:12,472 --> 00:32:13,723
'cause we have
all the girls up here

642
00:32:13,806 --> 00:32:16,684
with a biography about each one.
Um...

643
00:32:17,560 --> 00:32:18,519
And this is...

644
00:32:18,603 --> 00:32:20,188
Yeah, it's the first thing
you see every morning.

645
00:32:20,271 --> 00:32:23,524
So, it's a reminder
that these girls have histories,

646
00:32:23,608 --> 00:32:27,820
have families, have, you know,
faces and had lives.

647
00:32:27,862 --> 00:32:30,031
And it's not just a case.

648
00:32:30,073 --> 00:32:31,366
It's much more than that.

649
00:32:33,242 --> 00:32:36,955
We have some of the original
yogurt shop material here.

650
00:32:37,038 --> 00:32:40,708
Uh, these two filing cabinets
is full of original material.

651
00:32:40,792 --> 00:32:42,460
And then there's multiple
other filing cabinets

652
00:32:42,543 --> 00:32:43,503
at a different location.

653
00:32:43,544 --> 00:32:46,673
So, just again,
the vastness of this case,

654
00:32:46,714 --> 00:32:50,551
this is only a portion
of some of the hard copies.

655
00:32:52,220 --> 00:32:53,388
Here it is.

656
00:32:53,471 --> 00:32:55,556
So, like, we still have
all the original VHS.

657
00:32:57,058 --> 00:33:00,061
I mean, this is interviews,
this is in-car camera,

658
00:33:00,144 --> 00:33:01,562
this is, like, the original VHS,

659
00:33:01,604 --> 00:33:03,564
and I guess
if we wanted to watch it,

660
00:33:03,648 --> 00:33:06,401
we'd have to find
a VHS player somewhere.

661
00:33:07,235 --> 00:33:10,488
♪ (SOMBER MUSIC PLAYING) ♪

662
00:33:18,621 --> 00:33:21,374
{\an8}DAN:
<i>So we have this unknown DNA...</i>

663
00:33:21,416 --> 00:33:22,792
{\an8}<i>and I gotta figure out
who that is.</i>

664
00:33:22,875 --> 00:33:24,377
{\an8}<i>That's goal number one.</i>

665
00:33:25,253 --> 00:33:26,963
It could be contamination,

666
00:33:27,046 --> 00:33:30,925
or it could be another,
uh, person involved.

667
00:33:30,967 --> 00:33:33,344
DAN: <i>What's the probability
that it's contamination?</i>

668
00:33:33,428 --> 00:33:37,306
We have the original '08 profile
that went to one lab.

669
00:33:37,390 --> 00:33:40,018
<i>And then as early as 2017
and 2019,</i>

670
00:33:40,101 --> 00:33:42,770
<i>we're finding that profile
in other places.</i>

671
00:33:42,812 --> 00:33:44,981
A different--
totally different lab.

672
00:33:45,064 --> 00:33:50,153
And totally different,
unrelated pieces of evidence.

673
00:33:51,195 --> 00:33:54,449
So how would you have
contamination

674
00:33:54,490 --> 00:33:57,660
when you've got different areas
of the crime scene,

675
00:33:57,744 --> 00:33:59,662
different people with different
chains of custody,

676
00:33:59,746 --> 00:34:01,622
and these items going
to different labs

677
00:34:01,706 --> 00:34:02,957
in different time periods?

678
00:34:05,626 --> 00:34:07,462
<i>It would be like winning
the lottery repeatedly,</i>

679
00:34:07,503 --> 00:34:11,132
<i>like, the chances of somehow
samples that are unrelated</i>

680
00:34:11,215 --> 00:34:13,468
and handled by different people
in different labs

681
00:34:13,551 --> 00:34:16,304
at different time periods
somehow got contaminated

682
00:34:16,345 --> 00:34:19,015
by the same male profile?

683
00:34:19,098 --> 00:34:21,059
That doesn't--
that does not exist.

684
00:34:21,142 --> 00:34:25,188
So, I suppose the state
of Texas now is going to say

685
00:34:25,271 --> 00:34:28,691
<i>that there were really five boys
there instead of four.</i>

686
00:34:30,568 --> 00:34:31,903
DAN: <i>It's not contamination by,</i>

687
00:34:31,986 --> 00:34:33,404
<i>like, lab personnel
or anybody on the scene,</i>

688
00:34:33,488 --> 00:34:36,324
<i>but to say that
that is our fifth person,</i>

689
00:34:36,365 --> 00:34:38,826
or it shows that the four
were not there at all,

690
00:34:38,868 --> 00:34:39,994
it's some other person,

691
00:34:40,036 --> 00:34:42,163
like, until we figure out
who that profile belongs to,

692
00:34:42,205 --> 00:34:44,832
like, that's just speculation.

693
00:34:44,916 --> 00:34:48,503
{\an8}MARGARET:

694
00:34:49,087 --> 00:34:54,550
{\an8}MARGARET:

695
00:34:54,634 --> 00:34:58,805
{\an8}MARGARET:

696
00:34:58,846 --> 00:34:59,847
{\an8}Yeah.

697
00:34:59,931 --> 00:35:04,393
{\an8}MARGARET:

698
00:35:04,477 --> 00:35:08,439
{\an8}MARGARET:

699
00:35:08,523 --> 00:35:14,112
{\an8}MARGARET:

700
00:35:14,779 --> 00:35:16,364
Yeah. I...

701
00:35:16,405 --> 00:35:17,824
-MARGARET: Yeah.
-I'm-- I'm...

702
00:35:19,784 --> 00:35:21,869
staying out of it
until I figure out
who that person is.

703
00:35:24,664 --> 00:35:27,208
<i>It could come back to somebody
totally unrelated to this case,</i>

704
00:35:27,250 --> 00:35:28,543
<i>like, their DNA got transferred</i>

705
00:35:28,626 --> 00:35:30,211
<i>for a totally normal reason,
right?</i>

706
00:35:30,294 --> 00:35:31,379
<i>Like a friend or something.</i>

707
00:35:31,462 --> 00:35:33,214
<i>Or it may be
a complete dead end.</i>

708
00:35:33,256 --> 00:35:34,549
<i>We just don't know.</i>

709
00:35:34,590 --> 00:35:35,925
(INDISTINCT CHATTER)

710
00:35:36,008 --> 00:35:39,387
{\an8}We can't think of DNA as proving
guilt or innocence.

711
00:35:39,428 --> 00:35:42,098
{\an8}DNA is something that says,
"I have a sample

712
00:35:42,181 --> 00:35:44,892
{\an8}and I may be able to tell you
who is the source of this sample

713
00:35:44,934 --> 00:35:48,104
<i>or who's not a contributor
of the sample."</i>

714
00:35:48,187 --> 00:35:51,274
<i>But how it got there,
when it got there,</i>

715
00:35:51,357 --> 00:35:53,276
that's up to
the whole investigation

716
00:35:53,359 --> 00:35:54,986
and all the other factors
in that.

717
00:35:57,363 --> 00:35:59,282
<i>Anytime you do a DNA test,</i>

718
00:35:59,365 --> 00:36:01,284
<i>you have to take some
of the sample and use it.</i>

719
00:36:01,367 --> 00:36:04,162
<i>Once we use it,
it's no longer there.</i>

720
00:36:04,245 --> 00:36:07,415
So when you have a DNA sample
and there's very little,

721
00:36:07,498 --> 00:36:08,916
you may only have one shot at it

722
00:36:08,958 --> 00:36:10,626
'cause you may have to use
all of it up.

723
00:36:10,710 --> 00:36:12,420
And then there's
no going back after that.

724
00:36:12,503 --> 00:36:15,673
Here they got a Y-profile
from Jennifer Harbison.

725
00:36:15,756 --> 00:36:17,925
<i>In a lot of ways,
you're pushing the envelope here</i>

726
00:36:17,967 --> 00:36:22,638
to cutting-edge technology,
if not bleeding-edge technology.

727
00:36:22,722 --> 00:36:25,391
So we don't know
if this is going to get

728
00:36:25,433 --> 00:36:29,145
the answer we want,
which is, uh, something,

729
00:36:29,228 --> 00:36:32,648
or it's going to just be,
you know, a waste in that

730
00:36:32,732 --> 00:36:36,527
because no one's done this
on this kind of work before.

731
00:36:36,611 --> 00:36:39,280
It's a last effort
because there's nothing else

732
00:36:39,322 --> 00:36:43,576
the case can use to...
to try to solve the murder.

733
00:36:48,789 --> 00:36:51,876
♪ (MUSIC FADES) ♪

734
00:36:51,959 --> 00:36:53,961
SHEILA WYSOCKI:
<i>Okay, so we, y'all,</i>

735
00:36:54,045 --> 00:36:56,380
<i>we're going to call,
bear with us,</i>

736
00:36:56,464 --> 00:36:59,926
because I'm sorry,
we may be able to solve crimes,

737
00:36:59,967 --> 00:37:02,511
but we can't solve technology,
just saying.

738
00:37:02,595 --> 00:37:03,554
(CHUCKLES)

739
00:37:03,638 --> 00:37:07,308
{\an8}All right, so this is my crew
right back here.

740
00:37:07,350 --> 00:37:08,976
{\an8}I told you about.

741
00:37:09,018 --> 00:37:13,689
{\an8}And they're all so excited
to meet you

742
00:37:13,773 --> 00:37:15,650
{\an8}'cause I've been bragging
on you.

743
00:37:15,691 --> 00:37:17,568
{\an8}Okay, we have
a bunch of questions,

744
00:37:17,652 --> 00:37:21,030
but I think that where we want
to start is,

745
00:37:21,113 --> 00:37:24,784
what would you do different,
knowing what you know today?

746
00:37:24,825 --> 00:37:27,453
I would have
continued investigating

747
00:37:28,287 --> 00:37:29,997
<i>the creek people,</i>

748
00:37:30,039 --> 00:37:32,416
Mac and the people
that were hanging out

749
00:37:32,500 --> 00:37:34,085
in the creek there with Mac.

750
00:37:34,877 --> 00:37:36,963
<i>Not to look at them as suspects,</i>

751
00:37:37,004 --> 00:37:38,714
<i>but just to get
any other information</i>

752
00:37:38,798 --> 00:37:41,842
because there were
tons of tips about Maurice.

753
00:37:44,512 --> 00:37:45,513
<i>Under the bridge</i>

754
00:37:45,596 --> 00:37:47,598
<i>where these people
were hanging out,</i>

755
00:37:47,682 --> 00:37:50,017
<i>that's where Maurice
told Polanco</i>

756
00:37:50,059 --> 00:37:51,978
<i>they're storing
the communal gun.</i>

757
00:37:52,937 --> 00:37:54,105
<i>This communal gun</i>

758
00:37:54,188 --> 00:37:56,983
<i>is what we suspect
would've been the .380.</i>

759
00:37:58,734 --> 00:38:01,988
{\an8}POLANCO:

760
00:38:02,029 --> 00:38:04,031
{\an8}MAURICE:

761
00:38:04,782 --> 00:38:10,371
{\an8}MAURICE:

762
00:38:11,122 --> 00:38:15,668
{\an8}POLANCO:

763
00:38:17,545 --> 00:38:19,088
(SCOFFS)

764
00:38:20,881 --> 00:38:22,675
{\an8}I never knew
that all that was said.

765
00:38:22,717 --> 00:38:24,552
{\an8}That is insane. Yeah.

766
00:38:25,511 --> 00:38:27,763
{\an8}I don't even know
how to respond to that.

767
00:38:27,847 --> 00:38:31,183
But, I mean, you know,
when he said the guy,

768
00:38:31,225 --> 00:38:32,893
Mace, who lived
in North Cross Apartments

769
00:38:32,935 --> 00:38:36,063
with his mom, I mean,
he's got to be talking about me.

770
00:38:36,105 --> 00:38:37,732
MAC: Yes, that would have been
this apartment,

771
00:38:37,773 --> 00:38:40,484
-but on the other side.
-KEVIN PARLIN: This exactly?

772
00:38:40,568 --> 00:38:42,153
MAC: <i>I don't know
that anybody else</i>

773
00:38:42,236 --> 00:38:43,779
<i>lived in North Cross Apartments</i>

774
00:38:43,863 --> 00:38:46,782
with their mom that was me,
you know, a--

775
00:38:46,866 --> 00:38:49,702
a "skinhead," whatever.

776
00:38:49,744 --> 00:38:51,746
I never thought I'd be back
here again. This is...

777
00:38:51,829 --> 00:38:53,539
KEVIN: Yeah, I feel like
my childhood's

778
00:38:53,581 --> 00:38:54,790
coming to haunt me.

779
00:39:01,088 --> 00:39:02,840
MAC: I feel like
this was the spot.

780
00:39:03,716 --> 00:39:05,009
Yeah, the yogurt shop's, what,

781
00:39:05,092 --> 00:39:07,303
{\an8}a two-minute walk
right over there?

782
00:39:07,386 --> 00:39:10,348
{\an8}What is it,
a couple thousand yards?

783
00:39:10,431 --> 00:39:12,266
{\an8}I mean, really, really close.

784
00:39:12,308 --> 00:39:13,934
Uh, the mall is just
on the other side

785
00:39:13,976 --> 00:39:15,770
of these apartments,
pretty much.

786
00:39:15,853 --> 00:39:17,480
But I feel like
there's been a lot of erosion.

787
00:39:17,563 --> 00:39:19,023
I think it was...

788
00:39:19,106 --> 00:39:20,733
KEVIN: I think we would have
just been down here

789
00:39:20,775 --> 00:39:21,942
to hide and drink beer.

790
00:39:21,984 --> 00:39:23,235
-MARGARET: Yeah.
-KEVIN: That's it.

791
00:39:23,277 --> 00:39:26,072
{\an8}MARGARET:

792
00:39:26,113 --> 00:39:28,449
{\an8}-That is complete horseshit.
-MAC: I've been asked
about that.

793
00:39:28,532 --> 00:39:29,617
That is so ludicrous.

794
00:39:29,700 --> 00:39:31,118
{\an8}MAC:

795
00:39:31,202 --> 00:39:34,372
And they also asked me
for a current DNA sample

796
00:39:34,455 --> 00:39:37,124
'cause I think they said
they lost the original one, so.

797
00:39:37,208 --> 00:39:40,169
So number one,
we didn't have money, right?

798
00:39:40,252 --> 00:39:43,798
So, if we had the money
to purchase said gun,

799
00:39:43,881 --> 00:39:46,300
we weren't leaving it
in the creek.

800
00:39:46,384 --> 00:39:49,720
So, this idea
of some shared community gun

801
00:39:49,804 --> 00:39:51,514
is absolute absurdity.

802
00:39:51,597 --> 00:39:52,973
♪ (SUSPENSEFUL MUSIC PLAYING) ♪

803
00:39:53,015 --> 00:39:55,309
<i>I think we had a lot of bravado</i>

804
00:39:55,393 --> 00:39:58,312
<i>and we wanted to be tough
and cool, but we weren't.</i>

805
00:39:58,396 --> 00:40:01,982
<i>You know. We weren't evil.
We never hurt anybody.</i>

806
00:40:02,024 --> 00:40:04,527
<i>And, uh, yeah.</i>

807
00:40:06,737 --> 00:40:09,573
<i>In my experience,
people don't want to hear</i>

808
00:40:09,657 --> 00:40:12,576
<i>that there's inherently
evil people in the world</i>

809
00:40:12,660 --> 00:40:14,412
<i>and that the vast majority of us</i>

810
00:40:14,495 --> 00:40:16,288
are neither good nor evil,

811
00:40:16,330 --> 00:40:18,374
but we'll kind of
go whatever way,

812
00:40:18,457 --> 00:40:23,045
which may in part explain
what happened up there, right?

813
00:40:23,129 --> 00:40:26,090
Somebody was evil
and somebody went along.

814
00:40:26,757 --> 00:40:28,092
I think the part I struggle with

815
00:40:28,175 --> 00:40:30,219
is how did that person
who went along never,

816
00:40:30,302 --> 00:40:32,847
ever spill the beans,
right?

817
00:40:32,930 --> 00:40:35,182
How did they never,
ever come clean?

818
00:40:35,224 --> 00:40:37,852
<i>Because yeah, somebody was evil,</i>

819
00:40:37,893 --> 00:40:41,147
<i>but I tend to believe people
will kind of go whatever way.</i>

820
00:40:42,982 --> 00:40:45,192
<i>I don't ever want
to be one of those people.</i>

821
00:40:54,702 --> 00:40:56,203
LAURA GONZALES:
<i>Everyone, I think a really nice,</i>

822
00:40:56,287 --> 00:40:58,330
<i>good circle all the way around.</i>

823
00:40:58,372 --> 00:41:00,082
Everybody join hands, please.

824
00:41:01,292 --> 00:41:03,961
{\an8}We thank you, man up above.

825
00:41:05,379 --> 00:41:07,756
{\an8}We are so grateful
you've brought us here.

826
00:41:07,840 --> 00:41:10,050
We ask that you keep
everybody here healthy

827
00:41:10,134 --> 00:41:12,803
and that today we find
some peace and closure.

828
00:41:12,887 --> 00:41:15,389
-In Jesus's name, amen.
-Amen.

829
00:41:15,431 --> 00:41:17,224
Let's pull this away
because the capsule,

830
00:41:17,308 --> 00:41:19,727
I could tell, is there
'cause look, watch.

831
00:41:19,768 --> 00:41:21,437
-SHAWN: Oh, yeah.
-LAURA: So, it's there.

832
00:41:21,520 --> 00:41:24,565
So, let's move this over there.
Be careful.

833
00:41:26,025 --> 00:41:27,735
ANGIE:
We'll put it back where it was.

834
00:41:29,445 --> 00:41:31,530
{\an8}LAURA: Was it concrete
or was it a box?

835
00:41:31,572 --> 00:41:33,282
PAM: I can't remember.

836
00:41:34,158 --> 00:41:36,035
I remember them doing it.

837
00:41:36,076 --> 00:41:38,204
BOB: There's something there.
I don't know what it is.

838
00:41:38,913 --> 00:41:41,582
(SHOVEL SCRAPES THE GROUND)

839
00:41:43,334 --> 00:41:44,960
BOB: I don't know
if that's it or not.

840
00:41:47,087 --> 00:41:49,924
-PAM: You don't remember?
-FRIEND 2: I don't remember.

841
00:41:49,965 --> 00:41:52,885
-That year was a whole fog.
-PAM: Yeah. Yeah.

842
00:41:52,927 --> 00:41:55,429
(INDISTINCT CHATTER)

843
00:41:56,096 --> 00:41:59,225
♪ (SOMBER MUSIC PLAYING) ♪

844
00:42:01,268 --> 00:42:03,729
-Ooh.
-Yeah.

845
00:42:03,771 --> 00:42:05,689
{\an8}-What are you doin'?
-I don't know.

846
00:42:06,273 --> 00:42:09,485
{\an8}(SHOVEL SCOOPS SOIL)

847
00:42:09,568 --> 00:42:13,280
♪ (MUSIC CONTINUES) ♪

848
00:42:14,532 --> 00:42:15,866
DAN: With all these roots here,

849
00:42:15,950 --> 00:42:17,451
I don't think
it's going to be here.

850
00:42:17,535 --> 00:42:21,288
I don't either.
Maybe it's over here.

851
00:42:21,330 --> 00:42:22,748
ANGIE: Yeah, I wonder
if it's under here.

852
00:42:22,790 --> 00:42:23,958
BOB: Doesn't make any sense
that the--

853
00:42:24,041 --> 00:42:25,626
LAURA: Yes, she thinks
it was off to the side

854
00:42:25,709 --> 00:42:26,710
of the courtyard.

855
00:42:26,794 --> 00:42:29,547
And even the parents
are not very sure,

856
00:42:29,630 --> 00:42:32,299
so do you think you know?
Can you help me?

857
00:42:32,341 --> 00:42:35,469
♪ (SENTIMENTAL MUSIC PLAYING) ♪

858
00:42:48,482 --> 00:42:50,651
"Best buds always," yeah.

859
00:42:50,734 --> 00:42:55,656
"Amy Ayers, 2/21/92,
Mr. Sun's yearbook sponsor."

860
00:42:55,698 --> 00:42:57,324
(TAPPING ON DECAYED CAPSULE)

861
00:42:57,408 --> 00:42:59,159
-LAURA: Here we go.
-DAN: Got it going?

862
00:42:59,201 --> 00:43:01,412
-There we go. Damn!
-LAURA: Dan, watch out.

863
00:43:05,791 --> 00:43:07,918
-Oh, man. What a mess.
-BOB: Newspaper.

864
00:43:12,047 --> 00:43:14,466
DAN: Something's in
a plastic bag in there.

865
00:43:14,508 --> 00:43:16,844
BOB: Bring that trash can
over here and we...

866
00:43:18,387 --> 00:43:21,515
LAURA: That the ribbons? Uh-huh.
That's off the tree.

867
00:43:21,599 --> 00:43:23,517
-PAM: Oh, wow.
-LAURA: That's what those are.

868
00:43:23,601 --> 00:43:27,521
The ribbons off the tree
when they planted it. Uh-huh.

869
00:43:27,563 --> 00:43:29,023
FRIEND 3:
<i>I do see some names there.</i>

870
00:43:29,064 --> 00:43:30,899
LAURA: <i>Yeah, they tied them
on there when they planted it.</i>

871
00:43:30,983 --> 00:43:33,402
<i>-"We will-- we will not forget."</i>
-BOB: <i>Right.</i>

872
00:43:33,485 --> 00:43:35,696
LAURA: This was the box.

873
00:43:35,738 --> 00:43:37,364
KATE AYERS: I think it's nice
for them to know

874
00:43:37,448 --> 00:43:39,366
that they weren't alone
in all of it,

875
00:43:39,408 --> 00:43:41,744
{\an8}even if they felt
that they were.

876
00:43:41,827 --> 00:43:45,372
{\an8}'Cause it's obvious that
a lot of people really loved her

877
00:43:45,456 --> 00:43:47,374
{\an8}and thought of her a lot.

878
00:43:50,002 --> 00:43:51,045
BOB: That's her.

879
00:43:51,086 --> 00:43:52,713
FRIEND 2: Because one time

880
00:43:52,796 --> 00:43:54,715
when we were
in elementary school,

881
00:43:54,757 --> 00:43:56,258
I don't know if she was in...

882
00:43:56,342 --> 00:43:59,136
If it dries out,
you can tell more about it.

883
00:44:00,220 --> 00:44:02,640
(INDISTINCT CHATTER)

884
00:44:02,723 --> 00:44:04,558
KATE: <i>I remember
not knowing pieces of it,</i>

885
00:44:04,600 --> 00:44:07,311
but I feel like I've always
known about it.

886
00:44:07,394 --> 00:44:09,229
Mm, at my grandparents' house,

887
00:44:09,313 --> 00:44:11,940
they have, like, a pillow
and it has her on it.

888
00:44:12,024 --> 00:44:14,026
And I'd always wonder
who she was.

889
00:44:14,068 --> 00:44:16,028
And then they have
a whole hallway,

890
00:44:16,070 --> 00:44:17,237
and the whole hallway

891
00:44:17,321 --> 00:44:20,240
<i>has a bunch of different things
with her on it.</i>

892
00:44:21,909 --> 00:44:23,911
<i>I don't know,
you see how it affects them.</i>

893
00:44:23,994 --> 00:44:26,789
<i>Dad doesn't really
talk about it a lot.</i>

894
00:44:26,872 --> 00:44:30,042
It's usually Mom yelling
at people about it, but...

895
00:44:32,419 --> 00:44:35,089
I don't know, you kind of wonder
how they'd be,

896
00:44:35,172 --> 00:44:37,549
<i>how he'd be,
if it hadn't happened.</i>

897
00:44:37,591 --> 00:44:39,385
(INDISTINCT CHATTER)

898
00:44:40,594 --> 00:44:45,391
{\an8}♪ (MUSIC CONTINUES) ♪

899
00:44:48,769 --> 00:44:51,980
(INDISTINCT CHATTER)

900
00:44:52,064 --> 00:44:55,943
BOB: Well...
another chapter closed.

901
00:44:57,569 --> 00:45:00,364
♪ (MUSIC CONTINUES) ♪

902
00:45:05,494 --> 00:45:06,829
SONORA THOMAS:
<i>There's so many ways</i>

903
00:45:06,912 --> 00:45:09,415
<i>the loss of my sister,
30 years later,</i>

904
00:45:09,456 --> 00:45:12,251
<i>shows up in my adult life.</i>

905
00:45:12,292 --> 00:45:15,504
{\an8}My name is Sonora,
and I'm a therapist.

906
00:45:15,587 --> 00:45:17,756
{\an8}I'm in private practice
in Massachusetts.

907
00:45:19,007 --> 00:45:21,301
<i>One thing that really drew me
to this kind of work</i>

908
00:45:21,385 --> 00:45:24,638
<i>is that I've spent so much
of my life trying to heal.</i>

909
00:45:24,680 --> 00:45:28,183
In the very beginning
when you lost your child,

910
00:45:28,267 --> 00:45:30,978
I want to look at
a little bit about

911
00:45:31,019 --> 00:45:34,314
what that initial experience
was like for you.

912
00:45:34,356 --> 00:45:37,693
<i>I think there's benefit
to telling the story</i>

913
00:45:37,776 --> 00:45:40,154
<i>in different settings,
in different ways.</i>

914
00:45:40,237 --> 00:45:41,947
I wanted to give you

915
00:45:41,989 --> 00:45:43,365
a chance to write
a letter to your child.

916
00:45:43,449 --> 00:45:46,076
It could be what's happening
in your life in this moment.

917
00:45:46,160 --> 00:45:49,997
<i>But I don't think the trauma
ever loses its potency.</i>

918
00:45:51,081 --> 00:45:52,499
Like when you ask me,

919
00:45:52,541 --> 00:45:53,834
"Can I remember
the yogurt shop?"

920
00:45:53,876 --> 00:45:57,004
Like, I can feel
my body changing

921
00:45:57,045 --> 00:46:00,632
when I have that memory,
you know? Um...

922
00:46:03,010 --> 00:46:07,514
And so... I don't--
You know, that may never change.

923
00:46:10,100 --> 00:46:11,185
BARBARA: <i>Well, it's 31 years</i>

924
00:46:11,268 --> 00:46:13,020
<i>and we're still talking
about this stuff,</i>

925
00:46:13,103 --> 00:46:15,272
<i>and I-- I try not to.</i>

926
00:46:15,355 --> 00:46:16,648
<i>Quite frankly,
I probably wouldn't have</i>

927
00:46:16,690 --> 00:46:18,567
<i>-if I weren't talking to you.</i>
-SONORA: <i>Right.</i>

928
00:46:18,650 --> 00:46:20,611
BARBARA: <i>But I needed
that connection with you.</i>

929
00:46:22,279 --> 00:46:24,281
{\an8}SONORA: Yesterday,
we were talking about

930
00:46:24,364 --> 00:46:27,701
{\an8}living through this experience,
you begin to know things

931
00:46:27,785 --> 00:46:29,912
{\an8}that other people don't know.

932
00:46:29,995 --> 00:46:32,790
And I don't think it works
that way for everybody.

933
00:46:32,873 --> 00:46:33,874
No.

934
00:46:33,957 --> 00:46:36,710
SONORA: Because some people

935
00:46:36,794 --> 00:46:40,380
that I know in my family
became more cynical.

936
00:46:40,464 --> 00:46:41,965
I can't quite find
the words for it,

937
00:46:42,049 --> 00:46:44,676
and I've been trying to find
the words for myself too,

938
00:46:44,718 --> 00:46:47,721
like, why these
tragic experiences

939
00:46:47,763 --> 00:46:50,516
opened me up
to love people more.

940
00:46:50,557 --> 00:46:53,060
-BARBARA: Mm-hmm.
-Because it could do
the opposite.

941
00:46:53,101 --> 00:46:55,479
By the way, they both happen.

942
00:46:55,562 --> 00:46:57,064
SONORA:
Yeah, tell me about that.

943
00:46:57,105 --> 00:46:59,066
-Both of those things happen.
-SONORA: Yeah.

944
00:46:59,107 --> 00:47:02,736
You do get really bitchy
and cynical about stuff,

945
00:47:02,820 --> 00:47:04,196
but then you also,

946
00:47:04,238 --> 00:47:06,448
you feel like
you're on the other side.

947
00:47:06,532 --> 00:47:08,408
You got closer to the love.

948
00:47:08,450 --> 00:47:11,620
It's amazing the tools
that we have to use

949
00:47:11,703 --> 00:47:14,581
to heal ourselves,
and we rarely use them.

950
00:47:14,623 --> 00:47:16,583
We get so close to the pain

951
00:47:16,667 --> 00:47:19,002
that it's more comfortable
to be there

952
00:47:19,086 --> 00:47:23,090
{\an8}than it is to go to the light,
to where the freedom is.

953
00:47:23,131 --> 00:47:24,424
{\an8}SONORA: Yeah, I hear that a lot

954
00:47:24,466 --> 00:47:26,260
{\an8}in the trauma groups
that I work with.

955
00:47:26,301 --> 00:47:27,803
"I don't like this,

956
00:47:27,886 --> 00:47:30,848
but I'm afraid I don't know
what else there is.

957
00:47:30,931 --> 00:47:32,391
And this is something
that I know.

958
00:47:32,432 --> 00:47:33,600
I know how to do this.

959
00:47:33,642 --> 00:47:35,102
I know how to hold on
to this pain.

960
00:47:35,185 --> 00:47:36,770
I know how to live
with this pain."

961
00:47:36,812 --> 00:47:38,772
I have this saying
that when I die

962
00:47:38,814 --> 00:47:43,110
I hope I'm brave
and that I can jump into it.

963
00:47:43,193 --> 00:47:45,737
-I want the freedom...
-Mm. Mm.

964
00:47:45,779 --> 00:47:49,116
...to fall into that next thing,
whatever that is.

965
00:47:49,199 --> 00:47:50,617
SONORA: Right,
to let go of the fear.

966
00:47:50,701 --> 00:47:51,952
Mm-hmm. Let go of the fear.

967
00:47:52,035 --> 00:47:54,454
JAMES: I think one of
the hard things,

968
00:47:54,538 --> 00:47:57,124
and I'm realizing
30 years later,

969
00:47:57,165 --> 00:47:59,167
is figuring out
how to live your life

970
00:47:59,251 --> 00:48:02,963
and live the life you want
to live, after all this.

971
00:48:03,005 --> 00:48:05,132
-Mm-hmm.
-You know,
not that you shouldn't care,

972
00:48:05,215 --> 00:48:08,468
not that you shouldn't,
whatever, but you know you gotta

973
00:48:08,552 --> 00:48:11,972
figure out what you love to do
and what you want to do.

974
00:48:12,014 --> 00:48:13,515
BARBARA: Mm-hmm.

975
00:48:13,599 --> 00:48:14,641
SONORA: Right.

976
00:48:16,184 --> 00:48:17,311
Yeah.

977
00:48:20,105 --> 00:48:21,815
(QUIVERING VOICE)
And it's really hard.

978
00:48:24,693 --> 00:48:27,821
But I think it's very important.
I mean, I went back to school...

979
00:48:27,905 --> 00:48:29,364
-BARBARA: Mm-hmm.
-...ten years on,

980
00:48:30,657 --> 00:48:32,826
went into engineering,
which I love.

981
00:48:33,994 --> 00:48:35,913
And I think the hard part

982
00:48:35,996 --> 00:48:39,166
with homicide is you get tied
into the whole investigation.

983
00:48:39,249 --> 00:48:41,209
-SONORA: Right.
-And is it good? Is it bad?

984
00:48:41,293 --> 00:48:44,338
Did somebody screw up?
Blah, blah, blah. You know...

985
00:48:44,379 --> 00:48:46,506
(SCOFFS) You know, it wasn't
until I went to an actual

986
00:48:46,548 --> 00:48:50,385
focused grief group
that I really liberated myself.

987
00:48:50,469 --> 00:48:52,471
And I was invited because my dad
had died that year.

988
00:48:52,512 --> 00:48:55,265
And it's like, well,
that was pretty trivial.

989
00:48:55,349 --> 00:48:58,226
I hate to say it. He was 85.
He'd been sick for a long time.

990
00:48:58,310 --> 00:49:01,021
I spent the whole grief group
talking about Eliza.

991
00:49:04,316 --> 00:49:08,362
And that was very liberating,
to actually focus on the grief.

992
00:49:08,403 --> 00:49:11,657
And I think you deny that
in the homicide stuff.

993
00:49:11,698 --> 00:49:14,159
-SONORA: Right.
-JAMES: Which is all necessary.

994
00:49:14,201 --> 00:49:15,911
But it's not necessary
for us to do it.

995
00:49:15,994 --> 00:49:17,537
JAMES: Not necessary
for me to do it.

996
00:49:17,579 --> 00:49:19,039
-Yeah.
-SONORA: Right.

997
00:49:19,122 --> 00:49:20,666
BARBARA:
<i>I agree with that so much</i>

998
00:49:20,707 --> 00:49:22,876
<i>because we thought
we were doing the right thing</i>

999
00:49:22,960 --> 00:49:24,962
<i>to be in public with this</i>

1000
00:49:25,045 --> 00:49:27,214
<i>because we needed
to keep it out in the public</i>

1001
00:49:27,255 --> 00:49:28,715
<i>so that we would still have</i>

1002
00:49:28,799 --> 00:49:30,759
<i>the support of the community
and they could love us</i>

1003
00:49:30,842 --> 00:49:32,803
{\an8}<i>and help us find these people.</i>

1004
00:49:32,886 --> 00:49:35,472
{\an8}<i>You know,
every time anything happened,</i>

1005
00:49:35,555 --> 00:49:36,556
{\an8}<i>we had cameras.</i>

1006
00:49:36,598 --> 00:49:40,936
{\an8}<i>And as time goes on,
it takes a toll on you.</i>

1007
00:49:42,104 --> 00:49:43,563
It's been 31 years.

1008
00:49:43,605 --> 00:49:46,733
I would not do it the same way.

1009
00:49:48,443 --> 00:49:51,071
<i>I would retreat and go far away</i>

1010
00:49:51,154 --> 00:49:53,031
<i>and have some quiet time
with God.</i>

1011
00:49:55,534 --> 00:49:57,577
<i>But the thing that
we have to be careful about,</i>

1012
00:49:57,619 --> 00:49:59,955
<i>because ours has been so public,</i>

1013
00:50:00,038 --> 00:50:03,458
most people don't have
the support of the community.

1014
00:50:03,542 --> 00:50:05,168
-SONORA: Right.
-BARBARA:
<i>Their brother gets killed</i>

1015
00:50:05,252 --> 00:50:07,087
<i>and no one
ever speaks to them about it</i>

1016
00:50:07,129 --> 00:50:08,380
<i>and they don't use
his name anymore.</i>

1017
00:50:09,881 --> 00:50:11,091
<i>You need that love.</i>

1018
00:50:11,133 --> 00:50:13,427
<i>You need to be held
when you're suffering.</i>

1019
00:50:14,386 --> 00:50:15,762
<i>But that was
the double-edged sword</i>

1020
00:50:15,846 --> 00:50:16,972
<i>of the public.</i>

1021
00:50:18,056 --> 00:50:20,267
We got a lot of attention early

1022
00:50:20,308 --> 00:50:22,144
'cause it was hot news.
Hot news.

1023
00:50:22,227 --> 00:50:23,895
Four White girls got killed.

1024
00:50:23,937 --> 00:50:25,397
And, uh...

1025
00:50:25,439 --> 00:50:27,774
and-- and the case, well,
we don't know about the case.

1026
00:50:27,816 --> 00:50:28,942
What do we know about the case?

1027
00:50:29,026 --> 00:50:32,154
Whatever they tell us,
we take it for face value.

1028
00:50:32,988 --> 00:50:34,573
Because it's...

1029
00:50:34,614 --> 00:50:37,117
Yeah, I would have taken
a step back a little bit more,

1030
00:50:37,159 --> 00:50:38,243
I think, that I'd--

1031
00:50:38,285 --> 00:50:41,580
but I felt such an obligation
to carry this thing out.

1032
00:50:43,623 --> 00:50:46,460
{\an8}MARGARET:

1033
00:50:46,501 --> 00:50:47,794
{\an8}-Okay.
-BARBARA: These two?

1034
00:50:47,836 --> 00:50:48,920
-These two?
-SONORA: Just us two.

1035
00:50:48,962 --> 00:50:50,005
MARGARET:
Actually, no, y'all two.

1036
00:50:50,088 --> 00:50:51,631
She needs a wide lens
from just us.

1037
00:50:51,673 --> 00:50:54,217
{\an8}MARGARET:

1038
00:50:54,301 --> 00:50:55,844
{\an8}Wasn't he sweet? He's so good.

1039
00:50:55,927 --> 00:50:57,345
SONORA: (CHUCKLES)

1040
00:50:57,429 --> 00:50:58,930
I knew I was better if I did it.

1041
00:50:58,972 --> 00:51:00,474
Yeah, and when he wants
to share

1042
00:51:00,557 --> 00:51:01,516
what his experience is--

1043
00:51:01,600 --> 00:51:03,810
-And he did.
-But he's scared, yeah.

1044
00:51:03,852 --> 00:51:05,979
I was glad.
It made me feel good.

1045
00:51:06,021 --> 00:51:08,315
Yeah, I know.
I'm so glad. Yeah.

1046
00:51:09,691 --> 00:51:10,942
Yeah.

1047
00:51:18,492 --> 00:51:19,701
I just... (CRIES)

1048
00:51:20,786 --> 00:51:23,288
I just... (CRIES, SNIFFLES)

1049
00:51:28,043 --> 00:51:30,170
Just put all this away
for a while.

1050
00:51:30,253 --> 00:51:32,172
It's been a tough couple of days

1051
00:51:32,214 --> 00:51:34,674
just to get going through
all this again.

1052
00:51:34,716 --> 00:51:37,677
But I love you and I appreciate
the opportunity to do it.

1053
00:51:37,761 --> 00:51:40,388
You have given me a huge gift

1054
00:51:41,389 --> 00:51:43,058
by talking to me
the last few days,

1055
00:51:43,141 --> 00:51:44,851
I cannot thank you enough.

1056
00:51:44,893 --> 00:51:47,270
I learned so much from you.

1057
00:51:50,482 --> 00:51:53,360
-I hope all this helps somebody.
-It helps me.

1058
00:51:53,443 --> 00:51:54,778
That's the only person
I care about.

1059
00:51:54,861 --> 00:51:56,196
Yeah, it helps me a lot.

1060
00:51:56,279 --> 00:51:57,656
I'm just so grateful

1061
00:51:57,697 --> 00:52:00,200
that you're sharing
your experience with me.

1062
00:52:00,283 --> 00:52:02,536
I don't have my mom to talk to,
but I can talk to you.

1063
00:52:02,619 --> 00:52:06,873
Well, one crazy-ass old lady
to the next one.

1064
00:52:06,957 --> 00:52:09,668
-It should blend really well.
-Right? Yeah, exactly.

1065
00:52:09,709 --> 00:52:13,004
-It should be the same person.
-Yeah, right.

1066
00:52:13,046 --> 00:52:14,756
BARBARA: All right.
Are y'all done with this?

1067
00:52:14,840 --> 00:52:16,925
Did you get the wide shot?

1068
00:52:17,008 --> 00:52:23,390
{\an8}♪ (SOMBER MUSIC PLAYING) ♪

1069
00:52:29,020 --> 00:52:30,605
DAN:
All right, we're here.

1070
00:52:31,898 --> 00:52:34,901
♪ (MUSIC CONTINUES) ♪

1071
00:52:38,280 --> 00:52:39,781
It's just hard to see.

1072
00:52:46,788 --> 00:52:48,915
The pictures on the wall,
these are some of the cases

1073
00:52:48,957 --> 00:52:50,625
that we've solved
over the years.

1074
00:52:50,709 --> 00:52:53,044
BOB: How old were
some of the cases? Very old?

1075
00:52:53,086 --> 00:52:56,715
DAN: Yeah, most of them
are from the '80s and '90s.

1076
00:53:00,051 --> 00:53:02,262
I'm sure you've heard
the same different kind of spiel

1077
00:53:02,345 --> 00:53:03,805
from every detective
for the last 30 years

1078
00:53:03,889 --> 00:53:05,265
about "we're working hard,"
you know,

1079
00:53:05,307 --> 00:53:07,934
"we're working on it,"
and I'm just the newest guy,

1080
00:53:07,976 --> 00:53:10,687
uh, but I want you to know

1081
00:53:10,770 --> 00:53:13,440
that I'm throwing
everything I can at this.

1082
00:53:14,274 --> 00:53:17,110
The DNA is, uh...

1083
00:53:17,194 --> 00:53:20,155
really the crux
of where we're going with it.

1084
00:53:20,238 --> 00:53:23,825
We're continuing to reevaluate
every piece of evidence

1085
00:53:23,909 --> 00:53:26,620
um, because
what may have been...

1086
00:53:28,163 --> 00:53:32,334
untestable a few years ago
because of what it's made of,

1087
00:53:32,417 --> 00:53:33,668
or its condition, or whatever,

1088
00:53:33,752 --> 00:53:36,296
may or may not be
something we can do now.

1089
00:53:36,379 --> 00:53:38,965
We've got a finite amount. Um...

1090
00:53:39,007 --> 00:53:40,300
It's my decision
as the lead detective,

1091
00:53:40,342 --> 00:53:41,301
but I'm not making it alone.

1092
00:53:41,343 --> 00:53:42,677
I'm bringing in people
way smarter than me

1093
00:53:42,761 --> 00:53:43,929
when it comes to DNA.

1094
00:53:43,970 --> 00:53:45,805
Um, some of the experts
across the country

1095
00:53:45,889 --> 00:53:47,974
that, uh, provide advice
to make sure

1096
00:53:48,016 --> 00:53:50,477
that when we move forward

1097
00:53:50,560 --> 00:53:53,355
with trying to test something
or trying...

1098
00:53:53,438 --> 00:53:55,857
to use some DNA up,
that we're at the best odds.

1099
00:53:55,941 --> 00:53:57,025
And if we don't have great odds,

1100
00:53:57,108 --> 00:53:59,110
then we'll just hold on
for a little bit.

1101
00:53:59,152 --> 00:54:00,487
If there's any questions
you have for me,

1102
00:54:00,570 --> 00:54:03,531
of course, I'll be happy
to answer them best I can.

1103
00:54:04,199 --> 00:54:06,493
It's nice to get some...

1104
00:54:08,370 --> 00:54:09,996
some info.

1105
00:54:10,038 --> 00:54:11,498
ANGIE: We've said this
over the years

1106
00:54:11,581 --> 00:54:13,959
is that it was always nice
to have fresh eyes on it.

1107
00:54:14,000 --> 00:54:16,294
We can communicate
as family members

1108
00:54:16,336 --> 00:54:17,712
and police department

1109
00:54:17,796 --> 00:54:20,632
and hopefully solve this
at the end of the day.

1110
00:54:22,592 --> 00:54:24,135
DAN: <i>I'm very hopeful.</i>

1111
00:54:24,177 --> 00:54:27,222
<i>I am confident that technology
is moving at a pace</i>

1112
00:54:27,305 --> 00:54:28,723
<i>that we will be at a point</i>

1113
00:54:28,807 --> 00:54:31,184
<i>where we can take
a sample to a lab,</i>

1114
00:54:31,226 --> 00:54:33,687
<i>items that were unable
to be tested before,</i>

1115
00:54:33,770 --> 00:54:35,438
<i>with a realistic expectation</i>

1116
00:54:35,522 --> 00:54:37,649
<i>of developing a profile
sooner than later.</i>

1117
00:54:39,025 --> 00:54:41,695
We are going to solve
this case someday.

1118
00:54:41,736 --> 00:54:43,446
I want the public to know that.

1119
00:54:44,114 --> 00:54:47,534
♪ (SOMBER MUSIC CONTINUES) ♪

1120
00:55:00,046 --> 00:55:01,006
<i>You'll have your own pain</i>

1121
00:55:01,047 --> 00:55:02,382
<i>and your own way
and your own time.</i>

1122
00:55:02,465 --> 00:55:05,051
<i>You don't need
to visit this one.</i> (SNIFFLES)

1123
00:55:06,136 --> 00:55:08,388
CLAIRE: <i>At a certain point,
the project ends</i>

1124
00:55:08,471 --> 00:55:11,516
<i>and, hopefully, the film
is finished and you let go.</i>

1125
00:55:11,558 --> 00:55:13,184
This was
a different kind of thing

1126
00:55:13,226 --> 00:55:14,769
because I didn't finish.

1127
00:55:16,021 --> 00:55:17,647
<i>It was really complicated.</i>

1128
00:55:17,731 --> 00:55:21,192
<i>I couldn't see all the angles,
all of the storylines,</i>

1129
00:55:21,234 --> 00:55:22,861
<i>all of the people.</i>

1130
00:55:22,902 --> 00:55:25,822
<i>So, the basic feeling
was a feeling of failure.</i>

1131
00:55:27,574 --> 00:55:30,618
And the larger feeling was just
that I had let people down.

1132
00:55:30,702 --> 00:55:32,746
I felt like
I had let people down,

1133
00:55:32,829 --> 00:55:34,581
you know,
who gave me a lot of trust.

1134
00:55:36,916 --> 00:55:40,462
<i>But I knew
that it was worth preserving.</i>

1135
00:55:40,545 --> 00:55:45,258
<i>And I'm glad that this footage
is finding a home</i>

1136
00:55:45,300 --> 00:55:47,469
that feels like
a way of honoring

1137
00:55:47,552 --> 00:55:49,429
the folks that let me film them.

1138
00:55:50,305 --> 00:55:51,473
Yeah.

1139
00:55:51,556 --> 00:55:55,518
♪ (MUSIC CONTINUES) ♪

1140
00:55:57,395 --> 00:55:58,938
JOHN JONES:
<i>As the years go on,</i>

1141
00:55:58,980 --> 00:56:01,274
<i>it's still sitting out there...</i>

1142
00:56:02,400 --> 00:56:03,777
<i>unsolved.</i>

1143
00:56:07,364 --> 00:56:11,409
I used to hide
every December 6th.

1144
00:56:11,451 --> 00:56:15,288
Couldn't find me.
I'd take off work,

1145
00:56:15,372 --> 00:56:19,167
even when I was still at PD,
and I did when I was at Metro.

1146
00:56:19,250 --> 00:56:21,628
December 6th,
you couldn't find me.

1147
00:56:21,669 --> 00:56:26,383
And I was off in a corner
by myself.

1148
00:56:27,467 --> 00:56:28,802
It's my version, I guess,

1149
00:56:28,885 --> 00:56:31,304
of a day
that will live in infamy.

1150
00:56:31,346 --> 00:56:35,558
Yeah, I mean, and it'll probably
be that way as long

1151
00:56:35,642 --> 00:56:37,769
as it's still unsolved.

1152
00:56:46,569 --> 00:56:48,154
SONORA: <i>Sometimes,
I think I have a memory,</i>

1153
00:56:48,238 --> 00:56:49,572
<i>but it's a photograph,</i>

1154
00:56:49,656 --> 00:56:51,741
<i>and it's a photograph
that I've seen many times,</i>

1155
00:56:51,825 --> 00:56:54,577
<i>and I sort of create
a story around it.</i>

1156
00:56:56,955 --> 00:57:00,125
<i>I don't think it matters whether
the memory's accurate or not,</i>

1157
00:57:00,166 --> 00:57:01,960
<i>because it's your memory.</i>

1158
00:57:02,001 --> 00:57:03,128
(CHILDREN LAUGHING)

1159
00:57:05,839 --> 00:57:06,756
SONORA: So, you’re asking,

1160
00:57:06,840 --> 00:57:09,342
how do we deal
with traumatic memories

1161
00:57:09,384 --> 00:57:11,803
and change them
or heal them, right?

1162
00:57:12,804 --> 00:57:13,847
Um...

1163
00:57:16,558 --> 00:57:18,643
So, yeah, there is,
like, this big school of thought

1164
00:57:18,685 --> 00:57:20,437
that says like,
"Oh, we just tell the story

1165
00:57:20,520 --> 00:57:21,729
over and over and over again."

1166
00:57:21,813 --> 00:57:23,982
(INAUDIBLE)

1167
00:57:24,023 --> 00:57:25,775
SONORA: <i>But I think
some other things need to happen</i>

1168
00:57:25,859 --> 00:57:29,028
{\an8}<i>in telling that story
over and over and over again.</i>

1169
00:57:31,531 --> 00:57:35,118
<i>I think we need to have
a lot of support in doing that.</i>

1170
00:57:36,619 --> 00:57:40,874
And to have the compassion
of other human beings around us

1171
00:57:40,915 --> 00:57:42,876
as they're witnessing our story.

1172
00:57:45,044 --> 00:57:46,713
<i>There's a real benefit</i>

1173
00:57:46,796 --> 00:57:50,091
<i>for both teller
and audience member</i>

1174
00:57:50,175 --> 00:57:53,386
<i>to telling that story
and to hearing that story.</i>

1175
00:57:53,470 --> 00:57:55,763
♪ (MUSIC CONTINUES) ♪

1176
00:57:57,056 --> 00:57:58,725
I think that can change

1177
00:57:58,766 --> 00:58:01,519
how the memory lives
inside of you.

1178
00:58:16,242 --> 00:58:17,869
SONORA: Look, there's Eliza!

1179
00:58:19,078 --> 00:58:20,705
(INDISTINCT CHATTER)

1180
00:58:20,747 --> 00:58:23,374
♪ (MUSIC FADES) ♪

1181
00:58:24,375 --> 00:58:27,337
(DISTORTED BUZZING)

1182
00:58:28,338 --> 00:58:31,883
♪ (SUSPENSEFUL MUSIC BUILDUP) ♪

1183
00:59:20,932 --> 00:59:24,102
♪ (MUSIC FADES) ♪